Gay Catholics struggle to maintain faith in church

Boston Globe ^ | 10/13/03 | Yvonne Abraham

[madprof98]

Grace Kelemanik, Catholic and lesbian, has worshiped with her partner at a suburban Boston parish for more than seven years. Their baby daughter was baptized there. Kelemanik has served on church committees, taught religious education classes to parish children.

But it's not easy being both gay and Catholic lately.

[HostileTerritory]

On the other hand, one wonders how many of the straight Catholics in Mass on Sunday adhere to the Holy Father's teachings on birth control. The answer: not many. Yet we all agree to turn our minds away from this contradiction even as the contradiction embodied by "gay Catholics" seems to call out for the strongest condemnation from Freepers.

I've seen the pain some of these Catholics live with. I wouldn't laugh it off without considering the many straight Catholics who don't examine their own sins (contraception) as thoroughly.

[dan1123]

And yet, Kelemanik has stayed put. She remains Catholic, not merely because she hopes to change the enormous institution from within,

Well, we know the real agenda, bringing down the church. The homosexual, abortion rights, animal rights, and enviromental movements are all trying to bring down the church. The boston globe is a nice tool for them to try and change public sentiment, which they believe will change the chuch's teachings.

Once they realize the biblical teachings of the church cannot be changed through public opinion, then they will resort to force.

[HostileTerritory]

The real agenda is to be able to take part of the rituals and prayers they associate with childhood, family, and faith, while also having love lives that conflict with what the church teaches. It's tough.

Why would they want to destroy something they love so much?

[Qwinn]

Are you referring to single Catholics having sex with contraception? Or married?

If they're single, they're sinning anyway, so the contraception part seems kinda superfluous.

Married using contraceptives? I dunno that that's all that prevalent... maybe I'm wrong.

To me, though, there's a difference between a Catholic who says "I know premarital sex is wrong, but it's too tempting for me and I feel bad about it", and "I'm Catholic but the Church's stand on premarital sex and contraception is ridiculous".

These days, society seems to think that the 2nd one is more correct because it's less "hypocritical". I think it's infinitely more hypocritical, and I think that there's a lot worse things than hypocrisy, like outright celebrating evil for no other reason than to avoid being able to be called a hypocrite.

Qwinn

[dan1123]

how many of the straight Catholics in Mass on Sunday adhere to the Holy Father's teachings on birth control. The answer: not many.

It might be a little harder to get around the homosexual sin than contraception. The Bible is a lot more direct in stating that homosexual acts are sinful.

[demkicker]

Wow, this is truly an upsidedown, insideout world! What about the Catholics who want to maintain faith in their church, no matter that it protected dozens of pedophiles? Good Googamooga, forgive me if I don't pull out my hanky for gay Catholics! Calgon, take me away!

[Alberta's Child]

Yet we all agree to turn our minds away from this contradiction . . .

No, we don't.

[Qwinn]

"What about the Catholics who want to maintain faith in their church, no matter that it protected dozens of pedophiles?"

If I thought you were open to an intelligent response about this, I would answer it. But given your tone and attitude, it's obvious you're not interested in anything except mocking from a self-righteous position.

Qwinn

[HostileTerritory]

If we banned every Catholic in Massachusetts (or Georgia, or Illinois, or Oregon...) from church who had had premarital sex or used contraception while married, you'd lose 90% of the congregations. Are you married? Lots of married people use contraception unless they're actively trying to have kids. Very few people these days want to follow Mel Gibson's example and have as many children as God intends. Too much of a chance that God has decided you want nine kids! :)

It's much easier to identify gay Catholics than Catholics on the pill, which is why the first group has to explicitly state they want to be part of the church, while the second group has the luxury of taking Communion as hypocrites and quietly ignoring the Pope. If the Catholic Church weren't making such an effort to enforce the rules on homosexuals, you wouldn't have heard anything from anyone about it, they'd just be quietly celebrating Mass in their churches with no fuss.

[HostileTerritory]

It might be a little harder to get around the homosexual sin than contraception. The Bible is a lot more direct in stating that homosexual acts are sinful.

That's a plausible argument for a Protestant church. Catholic doctrine works differently. Rome sets rules and levels of sin and contraception is as much an evil as homosexuality. Both acts are serious sins of equal gravity. But contraception is almost universally accepted in secular American culture--and more importantly, by many Protestant churches--so no one talks about how millions of Catholics are taking Communion in flagrant violation of the Pope's teachings.

[HostileTerritory]

What have you done to discourage use of contraception among Catholics?

[Qwinn]

I don't think the Church is as intent on kicking out people who are gay and concede that it is a sin, as much as it is intent on kicking out people who are gay and think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Same goes for contraception, pre-marital sex, etc. There aren't many sins that induce auto-excommunication from the Church (abortion -is- one of tem). Gay isn't one of them. But a CINO claiming that the Church is wrong and that they know better as to what is sin and what isn't? IMHO, that should be one.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

BTW, just to nip the expected argument in the bud... the Church doesn't say it's a sin to "be gay", as in being tempted to have sex with the same gender... it's just a sin to act out on it. The Church welcomes gays who at least make a strong attempt to avoid having gay sex, and who concede/confess when they do it that they have sinned.

The far -worse- sin is to claim that there's simply nothing wrong with it and carry on with communion as if the person accepting it is the one that sets the rules. That's literally elevating oneself to Godhood.

Frankly, I don't understand what's hard to figure out about this. I'm not even Catholic, and I "get it".

Qwinn

[Porterville]

And yet, Kelemanik has stayed put. She remains Catholic, not merely because she hopes to change the enormous institution from within, though that is part of it: Kelemanik stays Catholic because she was born into this church, and believes her Catholicism is as immutable as her lesbianism.

Yeah right, as if I expect the Catholic Curch to bend to my will and accept my sins... how self righteous... I bet she's sweating like a whore in church.

[HapaxLegamenon]

I know in time, as other things have changed, the church will come to understand [it was wrong about same-sex marriage]. Some future pope will have to realize this was an error.

Of Course statments just as this reveal that at least these "Gay Catholics" are no longer Catholic.

[viaveritasvita]

Bump. Note to self: Do not get into it again with the Roman Catholics! Been there, done that, never going back again.

[HostileTerritory]

I agree that membership in the Church requires adherence to the laws of the Church.

You brought up some of the difficult consequences of this, such as...

I don't think the Church is as intent on kicking out people who are gay and concede that it is a sin

This is the situation that we end up with, and while it works as a rational formulation, does one expect an openly gay Catholic to believe this and acknowledge this? To present himself as a member of the congregation in constant default, pretending that he wants to remove the sin, when his own rational mind dictates that his love life is not in conflict with his spiritual life?

The problem is that in America today, too many Catholics view their church through the prism of mainline Protestanism and secularism. As do most Americans who are of "the world." Many Catholics are able to quietly accommodate their secular humanist views on issues like contraception, capital punihsment, and premarital sex with their love and faith for the Church they've grown up with, even though it is counter to what the Church really stands for. Gay Catholics would like to do the same, but for too many Catholics, that's a bridge too far and so they get called out. And if we go back to the rulebook, as I kept harping on earlier, most American Catholics would be disqualified. Gay men and women are hurt by what is seen as selective enforcement by American prelates.

Not that the Vatican is concerned about what any secular-minded American Catholic thinks. Their minds are focused on the long-term and they're happy to restate the rules as loudly or as often as needed.

The conclusion is that gay Catholics experience a lot of pain that other Catholics have been unnecessarily spared. They will continue to experience this pain and alienation for the rest of their lives, barring unforeseen change in a Church which does not eagerly embrace it. I think the story is sad and there are no easy answers. I also think the situation deserves a more objective, serious look than some people (and I do NOT mean you) have been willing to give it.

[Qwinn]

I'm not a Catholic, but I "get" their position. Try me. ;)

Qwinn

[HapaxLegamenon]

Bump

[HostileTerritory]

I don't think the ideal of the chaste homosexual is really much of a solution. It resolves problems of church doctrine, but does nothing to resolve the conflicts individuals feel.

I don't know how to say this without sounding patronizing, but it's clear to me you're familiar with all of the issues involved and how the Church approaches them. I wasn't trying to get in an argument or teach you anything about what the Church means. Mostly I want to talk about the implications of Church teaching and how it intersects with real people of my acquaintance.