Faith Fades Where It Once Burned Strong (Europe/christianity)

NYTImes ^ | October 13, 2003 | FRANK BRUNI

[patent]

DISCLAIMER: I am not particularly endorsing or not endorsing any portion of the article.

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[patent]

Bumping. Let me know if you want on or off the list. Click my screen name for a description.

patent  +AMDG

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[John H K]

Separation of Church and State has been much stronger in the US.

Ironic that the people thinking they'll end up promoting religion in the US by destroying that separation may end up destroying religion.

[patent]

I think you are right. Our government is so infected with the spirit of this world that I don't see how religion could escape being further tainted.

patent

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[AntiGuv]

The desperation is evident. In September, when a group of Catholics in a rural town near Rome heard that the local monastery would be closed and the monk would be sent away, they kept him there for several days by bricking up and barricading the entrances.

Hmmm.. I'm not so sure the monk appreciated them for that..

[jpl]

Pride cometh before the fall.

[ModelBreaker]

a certain intensity of experience can lure more affluent, established Europeans into church as well

Yeah, the Holy Spirit will do that. The problem with the oldline Churches was that they have not encouraged people to have a daily, personal relationship with the Holy Spirit and the Savior. Churches that do, grow.

In the article, the suggestion is made that Churches have a marketing problem--they can't compete with other Churches because there are so many these-a-days.

But Churches that don't teach the Gospel are not competing with other Churches, they are competing with the Rotary Club, The Bridge Society and the League of Women Voters for membership. None of them change people's lives in any substantial way. But at least the secular societies are honest about what they are.

[Savage Beast]

Some of the most passionately religious people I have known have been in the "Liberal" enclaves of California. Their religion was certainly unorthodox, but they lived it, and, in some cases, it was an all consuming preoccupation.

[Savage Beast]

If present trends continue, Europe will become an Islamic theocracy before too long.

[kenth]

"The church seems really out of step," said Mr. Servadio, 39, mentioning issues like birth control and questioning the very utility of prayer. "I don't see how something like a confession and a few repetitions of the `Hail Mary' are going to solve any problems."

He wondered if he should call himself Catholic

He wonders?

[wasp69]

"The church seems really out of step," said Mr. Servadio, 39, mentioning issues like birth control and questioning the very utility of prayer. "I don't see how something like a confession and a few repetitions of the `Hail Mary' are going to solve any problems."

Thus you are ripe for, and most deserving of, the coming muslim takeover.

[NutCrackerBoy]

Ironic that the people thinking they'll end up promoting religion in the US by destroying that separation may end up destroying religion.

I am passionately interested in this topic even though I am not a believer. I would be very interested in ammunition for the argument that says ACLU-spearheaded strict separationism is actively discouraging religion.

Plenty of halfway reasonable people do not see that secularism is being imposed. I have to admit their argument that noone is prevented from going to church is similar to my libertarian arguments against government recognition of homosexual marriage.

[Ethan_Allen]

TO ALL

Calling all FL Freepers....URGENT MESSAGE

Terri on Hannity and Combes tonight with Randall Terry, also some new video of Terri which will cause major problems for Michael and Felos.

Please get the word out - this is urgent!!!

http://www.terrisfight.org

[Catholicguy]

You're back. smashing

[ppaul]

"I don't see how something like a confession and a few repetitions of the `Hail Mary' are going to solve any problems."

He's right.

[ppaul]

If present trends continue, Europe will become an Islamic theocracy before too long.

[Qwinn]

"I would be very interested in ammunition for the argument that says ACLU-spearheaded strict separationism is actively discouraging religion."

I would count the clear and obvious religious tests being applied in the judiciary (overwhelmingly and patently in violation of the constitution) and even in teaching positions in public schools... that's got to be discouraging to people, knowing that the 40% of the workforce employed by government will be actively denied the right to express their religion in ANY way throughout the workday. I strongly suspect federal employees will be dismissed from work for having ashes on their forehead on Ash Wednesday before long, if it hasn't happened already.

"their argument that noone is prevented from going to church"

In other words, what they're telling you is that it's okay for you to practice religion as long as you do it in a dark hole where no one can see, be offended, or be motivated to join you. And while you're in the dark hole, we'll whip up public sentiment against everything you stand for, knowing you can't say anything to defend yourself or your beliefs in the public square.

Qwinn
An Agnostic for Freedom OF, not FROM, Religion

[patent]

I'm back, but not smashing anything much yet. My attendance will probably still be spotty for a while, but I hope to have more free time.

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