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Posted on 10/13/2003 10:21:46 AM PDT by new cruelty
On the AAC conference's second day, attention shifted from the past and present to the future.
A morning panel dramatically titled "Intervention!" opened with the Rev. Bill Atwood, general secretary of the Ekklesia Society, speaking about the viewpoint of the Anglican primates and bishops of Africa and Asia--the global South. Atwood, who describes himself as a "facilitator" for conservative primates, described churches that largely reflect the evangelical theology of their founding missionaries and the communitarian values of their surrounding cultures-and for whom Western individualism and liberalism are antithetical.
"One archbishop said to me, 'You know, when the missionaries came here, they introduced us to Jesus. Now we don't have to travel to the West to ask Him what He thinks. We ask Him here,'" Atwood related.
Global South churchgoers maintain a "cultural repugnance" for homosexuality and find the idea of "parallel jurisdiction" alongside those who do not share that view unacceptable, he said. "As one archbishop said to me, 'We cannot be in a position of condoning evil.'" Threats of losing Western funding don't faze them, Atwood maintained, quoting Bishop Ben Kwashi of the Nigerian diocese of Jos: "'A pile of money? You can't make a pile of money so big it can insulate me from the flames of Hell.'"
No more 'muddling through'
"God willing, the defining battle of the war for Anglicanism's soul will be fought next week," intoned Pittsburgh bishop Duncan, even as he warned that the "war" itself would take "days and months, and to some extent years."
He characterized the conflict as one between archbishops in the global South and those of the "disintegrating, old" West, with Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams caught in the middle. "This time 'muddling through' will not suffice," he warned sternly. "For Rowan Williams, the last British empire is his to lose."
Duncan predicted that the primates will rebuke ECUSA's Presiding Bishop, the bishops who voted for Robinson's confirmation and tolerate same-sex unions, and the Diocese of New Hampshire. He also said they will demand that Robinson not be consecrated, but that, if he is, he and bishops who participate in his consecration not be recognized as such. All who voted for the objectional resolutions would be called to public repentance within a few months.
Admitting that such actions "sound pretty un-Anglican," Duncan then speculated on the outcome if the primates decline to rebuke ECUSA. "Quite simply, that failure would come at the price of a wrenching split in the whole fabric of the Communion. I am convinced that the Global South would largely separate itself from the old West," he said. "The Archbishop of Canterbury would become little more than the titular head of a moribund and declining British, American and Australian sect. The dynamic Anglicanism of Africa, Asia and Latin America would realign with a 'first among equals' whose see might have a movable name, including places like Lagos or Nassau or Singapore or Buenos Aires."
Gradually, as Duncan described it, a "Network of Confessing Dioceses and Parishes" would emerge in North America, aligned with African and Asian Anglicans-a remnant ecclesiola in ecclesia, a church within a church. The AAC would facilitate the process, providing structures for the new "replacement province," which will embrace a variety of breakaway Episcopal churches, ranging from the Reformed Episcopal Church to the Anglican Mission in America (AMiA).
The only sticking point, Duncan admitted, might be the ordination of women-which is acceptable in some parts of the global South and not in others. Duncan chalked that up to the failure to sustain "a process of reception" about the issue. "We need to develop understandings of how our two integrities can proceed alongside one another, until our Good Lord eventually makes this matter plain to our children and grandchildren," said Duncan.
-- The Rev. Jan Nunley is deputy director of Episcopal News Service.
And people think it would be so terrible if conservative Episopians returned to the Catholic fold? Really, if you go back to the founding of the Angelican church, there is no reason why it's existance should be continued. They have ditched promoting moral values, now the only left is the original concept of a church that exists for the sole purpose of allowing some King to have an easy divorce. You don't need another Angelician church to do that.
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It has always beeen believed among orthodox Christians that the validity of a sacrament does NOT depend on the goodness or morality of the priest/pastor who administers it!!! Otherwise, there would be no valid sacraments, since all clergy are sinners, as we all are.
However, a sacrament administered by an invalid church body is NOT valid!!!! This may well apply to the ECUSA, since it has left the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. We all need to pray for the Anglican communion, and especially the conservative Anglicans, that God will enable them to repair that breach!!!!
Tonight on Radio FreeRepublic!
8pm/5pm - Chuck Muth Interviews Lori Waters from the Eagle Forum!
10pm/7pm - Tom Adkins is ON FIRE! If you have never listened to Tom, don't miss his show tonight and watch Tom slice and dice liberals! Tom has been called a cross between Rush Limbaugh and Mike Savage and his shows are always intertaining and informative!
But if a priest/bishop openly teaches heresy and is opposing God then he puts himself outside of the Church, don't you think so?
In other words if a clergyman sins in private this is his personal problem to be dealt through confession and penance possibly including suspension or defrocking in extreme cases. On the other hand, when he openly promotes sin and takes pride in it he is an impostor.
It is never good to remain in a congregation or with a pastor/priest who teaches heresy or apostasy. (That goes doubly or triply if you have children!!!!) Around a decade ago, I left a congregation that had been taken over by the gay/feminazi cabal. I went back there a few months ago for an event that honored one of their former (and orthodox) pastors (a mentor of mine as well), and found that they had gone from bad to worse!!!
However, I believe that the sacraments administered by heretical pastors/priests in valid, apostolic church bodies are still valid. Of course, such clergy usually teach heretical things about the sacraments, thus putting anyone who believes such heresies in grave spiritual danger when they receive the sacraments (especially Holy Communion)! It's best to run far, far away!!!!
Unfortunately, all to many of us, even the orthodox and conservative, have been dealing with insidious heresies that have crept into our churches, coming with the Zeitgeist. The worst of these is the idea that the Holy Spirit works independently of Word and Sacrament, and can be found in the world, and we have to "catch up to what he is doing in the world" or else risk an obsolescent church. That is the root heresy that the liberal/gays are using right now to trump Scripture and justify making Gene Robinson a bishop, among other things.
Both the Orthodox Church and Martin Luther (among others) teach that the Spirit attaches himself to Word and Sacraments, and some of the most dangerous people in Christian history claimed to be able to discern the Spirit independent from Word and Sacraments. However, the idea of "catching up to the Spirit in the world" has been a common item of discourse in much of the American church for quite some time, and has only shown its ugly consequences for all to see in the last few months or years.
Since it is nearly impossible (for us or for our pastors/priests) to totally cleanse ourselves of these insidious heresies until they show their true satanic faces, it is a very good thing that the sacraments are valid and Christ-giving even though we are sinners and are subject to these creeping heresies from time to time.
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