Posted on 09/20/2015 6:25:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Gov. Scott Walker has dropped too fast, too hard to win the Republican nomination for president, U.S. Rep. Mark Pocan said last week.
Nor does the second-term Democratic congressman think leading GOP candidate Donald Trump or insurgent Democratic hopeful Bernie Sanders can win the White House.
Nobody is saying, What I really want is a 75-year-old socialist, Pocan said of Sanders, a U.S. senator from Vermont who is polling surprisingly well against Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination.
Pocan talked presidential politics, drew a line between religious freedom and the recognition of gay marriage including his own and touted the forced relaxation of his move from Madisons Isthmus to rural Black Earth.
Highlights of Pocans conversation Monday with the State Journal editorial board follow:
Q: Whats your reaction to Gov. Scott Walker saying hell take his Act 10 union restrictions with him to the White House?
A: I think theyre all trying to get whatever gets them 2 percent more in Iowa so they can move out of fifth place to fourth or whatever. I dont think much of that means anything. I think Scott Walker is done at this point in the presidential campaign. Everything Im hearing hes dropped too fast, too hard. The bandwidth isnt left in Iowa for him, and never was there in New Hampshire. So hell be an also ran, and thats fine. Im still trying to figure out who comes through (the GOP primary). (Donald) Trump is there. (Ben) Carson is the one I cant really figure out as much. Trump is a big persona. It makes sense that if youre looking and theres not a lot else thats interesting at the time. Jeb Bush has been a little too boring. I still think Marco Rubio (has potential). Hes very smart. He gives really good answers. Someone has to break out of there as the contrast to Trump.
Q: Trump as a big persona is an interesting way to describe it.
A: Some people would call that a jackass. But thats what he is, right? Hes a very big personality. Hes TV. Its the first reality star kind of candidate for president. Hes got a little bit of a populist message. I actually thought about going on the floor of Congress, you get like 1 minute, and do the Trump was right, and then add a little extension, at least once about the campaign finance stuff. Because I enjoyed that in the (first) debate where he said, Of course (Hillary Clinton) came to my wedding. I gave her money. And I was like: Oh, I love this. Someone is telling the truth. This is kind of good.
Q: What is the lesson from all of this, for a person in Congress, that Trump is tying into all of this anger? Isnt there something you all take from that?
A: Well, and Bernie, too, to some degree. Even though he is an insider, hes not seen as an insider. And Carson. People dont like the way institutions are running right now. I think thats the message. So people want more of a populist message. They want something outside of the normal political realm. Hillary should have been the slam dunk nominee (for Democrats). And now all of a sudden shes behind in the polls in Iowa. Kind of expected in New Hampshire, because Vermont is so close. But no one had anticipated that happening, either. So its kind of an anti-establishment tone thats out there. In fact, I saw last week (Democratic House Minority Leader) Nancy Pelosi finally said something about Bernie, going, You know, maybe hes on to something with message. People are just realizing that that outsider perspective (resonates). I go to work at the Capitol. Forty or 50 hardcore tea party people tell (Republican House Speaker John) Boehner what hes going to do. The tail wags the dog. He does it. Instead of voting on Iran, we have to split it into three votes. Instead of passing appropriation bills all summer when we have eight weeks to do it, we pull them half way through because of a Confederate flag amendment, and a hundred of their people want to vote to keep the Confederate flag, so we have to pull all appropriation bills. Just the sheer mechanism is so broken on the legislative process side that I think people do fundamentally see that. I just wish it translated in some other ways. But right now its translating in the presidential campaign because thats what people pay the most attention to.
Q: Is Trump or Sanders electable?
A: No, I dont think so. In the case of Sanders, nobody is saying, What I really want is a 75-year-old socialist. Right? But its that message that they kind of like. Its that populist message on the left. And I think in the case of Trump, the rest are a little to tapioca-ish, and there are so many (Republican candidates) that hes exciting and has somewhat of the message points that they want with a populist tone. But I dont think either one of them probably is (electable).
Q: Were you at all surprised by how well Scott Walker was doing?
A: Well, on paper, he looks like the dream candidate. If youre putting a novel together, I would put Scott Walker as the presidential nominee: Beat back a recall. Elected in a state thats a very purple state. Hes got plenty to show on paper. The problem is, theres just not an excitement factor there, and when he started answering questions on his own, theres only so many times you can put out a clarifying position and not kind of lose credibility. And I think that stuff all hit him. ... We all know what happened four years ago (with the GOP presidential nomination). It hasnt happened this time the every week (someone else is ahead) thing. But he had a little moment for a while. And now were kind of back to Trump holding this Summer of Trump. And well see what happens.
Q: Gov. Walker had a tough August.
A: Yeah. And I dont think it was he directly lost voters to Trump. He was just the biggest loser overall. His (first) debate performance I kind of felt like he was giving answers like when you cram for the test and you dont know the subject completely but you know what youre supposed to say. And he kind of got his answer out right away and finished before the time and didnt always get applause because it wasnt like he was thinking about what he was saying. He was offering an answer and kind of stepped away. But there wasnt any enthusiasm out of that.
Q: How hard is it to not say stupid stuff every third or fourth day when running for high office?
A: I think the difference is, if you are really out there saying what you believe, and its you, youre better off. But if youre trying to rehearse an answer, or be somebody because theres 2 percent of the vote in Iowa that resonates with that answer and its not you, then its hard. Its not you, so its not coming out of you. Its something that youre trying to remember. I think thats the difference. If its something that you are really passionate about, youre always better. If youre telling it like it is, youre going to be better on the stump (if) you actually care about what youre saying, versus what theyre all doing now. Theyre calculating how to get out of whatever place they are in in Iowa and try to get above. And that means youve got messages very finessed for certain groups of people. And if its not you, its not your best path to go. I think (Walkers) anti-union thing was truly where he believed. So hes at least on a message that he can say with a more familiarity. But the Canada wall was the classic. Even though he didnt say it as direct, he kind of did by the way he answers. He just didnt handle it well. Where, for Trump, (immigration) is his major issue and he loves to talk about it, so he does it extremely credibly.
Q: Youre on the budget committee. What does this outsider movement in the race for president do for a potential government shutdown?
A: It makes the process definitely more of a mess, because (Republican presidential candidate and U.S. Sen. Ted) Cruz is one of the main advocates for it. And we sometimes refer to Cruz as Speaker Cruz because, while he doesnt have as many friends on the Republican side on the Senate side, he does come over and meet with our tea party folks in the basement of Tortilla Coast right over by the Cannon Building. And then they all meet, and thats where they come up with some of these ideas, and then they tell Boehner what theyre going to do or he wont be speaker, and he acquiesces. ... But (Republican U.S. Rep.) Jim Jordan (of Ohio), who used to be head of the Republican study committee, part of the Freedom Caucus, went to UW-Madison at the same time I did: 82 to 86. Weve become good friends. While we dont agree on a lot ideologically, he loves the UW. Three of his kids came here to wrestle. One of his kids right now is wrestling.
Q: He was a wrestler, was he not?
A: Yeah. At that time.... But Jim said dont do a shutdown. So theres a division on the hardcores on this. What Im hearing, were going to do a continuing resolution probably until the end of November, end of December. ... And then well have to revisit it again. Its a terrible way of budgeting. Its absolutely abysmal. But at least theyll get through the shutdown by doing that. The military was thinking we could get a full year. I dont know how you get a full-year continuing resolution out of this group right now with a presidential year.
Q: Why dont you trust President Obama to negotiate fair trade deals?
A: Part of it is, the Constitution says we have that oversight. If we give up that oversight, it means we cant amend a trade agreement, and we have limited debate I think it comes out to a little over 2 minutes per member of Congress, what you have left when you give away fast-track authority and they went way too far. ... This wasnt just fast-track authority for this TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) deal and this president, its for any trade deal in the next six years. Its three years. But without an affirm vote of Congress, it extends another three. So you could argue not just the next president, but the next president (after that would have fast-track authority) on any trade deal. ... Thats just way too much latitude to put out there. ... On the trade deal itself, there are still a lot of holes out there. Its hard to have a trade deal that takes in 40 percent of the gross domestic product and not have some issues when you have Vietnam and labor standards paying less than pocket change an hour. You have Brunei and Malaysia on human rights angles. You still have cheese issues with New Zealand, and a lot of ag and auto issues with Japan. There still are a lot of questions. If its not going the right direction, how do you influence it if all you have is an up-or-down vote?
Q: U.S. Rep. Ron Kind, D-La Crosse, says the U.S. is running a trade surplus in manufacturing, agriculture and services with all of those countries we have bilateral agreements with.
A: One of things they started doing is up their numbers of what exports are. Theyre doing re-exports. Something comes in from Asia or wherever, goes into the L.A. port. They take it off the boat into a storage thing right at the port, put it back on, deliver it to Mexico. Now thats an export for the U.S. Ill accept theres a job maybe in moving stuff off the boat. But theres nothing in the good. And theyre counting those as goods. ... So its not really true when you look at it.
Q: Where do you live now?
A: Town of Vermont. Technically my mailing address is Black Earth. I live just about exactly between Mount Horeb and Black Earth.
Q: You moved out of Madison about a year ago?
A: A year ago March.
Q: Why did you make the move.
A: Its just really pretty out there. ... A couple years ago on Labor Day, we started driving out there. I took out one of those real estate apps and found this one place. And we just loved it. We face west. So we see the sunset every night. I see Blue Mounds. Deer come in the yard. We get wild turkeys. We get hawks. ... Its kind of forced relaxation. It is different being in Congress, as opposed to being in the Legislature being stopped and asked a lot of questions. Going to the grocery store became a really, really long project. Walking the dog because a really long project. ...
Q: Given that you represented the bluest of the blue districts in the Legislature, do you get any flak for leaving Madison and the Isthmus?
A: Some of the neighbors at first were a little upset. But not too bad at all. Im in D.C. so much anyway, its not like I was still on Baldwin Street. Its a little different that way. And I still see people because I get around to stuff when Im home. And weve always gotten around more to the outside areas anyway, because people knew me in Madison, but not so much in Plain or Spring Green or wherever else I try to get to. ...
Q: Gay marriage is now legal everywhere. Problem solved? Whats next?
A: Theres still a lot to get done. We have what we call the Equality Bill, where it wraps up mostly whats left. There are still 29 states where you can be fired for simply being gay or lesbian. Or you can lose housing.
Q: Not in Wisconsin.
A: No. Not in Wisconsin. But we dont have it for transgender. ...
Q: Where do you draw the line between respecting the religious freedom of people who dont think gay marriage is right, but still allowing freedom for same-sex spouses?
A: Where I draw the line, personally, is a religious organization shouldnt be forced to marry anyone. So you cant tell the Catholic Church what to do. But I think if youre in business for the public, you have to be available for the public. So we actually had a conservative blogger decide to go after us (by telephoning Pocans sign company) and asking, Well, would you print bumper stickers for (the late anti-gay Kansas pastor) Fred Phelps? ... They put the story out that we wouldnt respond. But we responded as soon as we got back and said, Yeah, Im a ... capitalist. Well do whatever. Yes, well take that business.
Q: So you dont pick or choose?
A: Yeah. And on this Kentucky clerk, you cant be working for the government and not follow the law. If she doesnt want to (marry gay people) she can go work for an organization where she doesnt have to.
Q: Although some people thought, here in Dane County, that we got ahead of it being legal that our clerks were kind of doing the same thing by granting them before they were legal.
A: I think thats more of a talking point than reality.
Q: So cake makers and wedding photographers, they dont get to pick and choose?
A: Youre in business. If they dont want to do it, I suppose they could come up with a cost (for) why its more. Theres a lot of creative ways they could do it outside of saying, Oh, by the way, Im a bigot. Id rather not do your cake. But if youre in for public business, I dont think you get to pick and choose. But a religious organization is separate. Thats where my line would be on that.
And this guy’s opinion matters why?
By all means ask another RINO what he thinks.
Never heard of him and won’t notice if I never hear of him again.
Yup. No one except jebito and hitlery can win.
And why should I give a damn what this person thinks?
He called Sanders an old Socialist?
Did they ask him the difference between any Democrat and a Socialist?
Who is Mark Pocan?
if you want some real entertainment go over to the DUmp and watch the crap slinging contest theyre having over there
He’s a Democrat. a queer Democrat at that, not sure why I took the time to read what he had to say
You’re scraping rock bottom with this post.
LOL.
Never heard of this guy and I’m glad about it.
If Clinton can win this country is in deeper trouble than we thought.
Mark Pocan??? Hey, interview me.
Thank you for asking what I was thinking while reading this. Who is this nobody and why does he matter?
Who the hell asked a RAT for his advice on the other side of the isle? So much for bipartisanship RAT style. The term bipartisanship only works one wayin favor of the RATS.
Interesting what he has to say about fair trade and the phony trade surplus.
Whar if it’s Trump or Walker vs. Sanders ? Or Trump (3rd party )vs . Walker vs. Sanders? Does Obama just get a third term by default?
he’s not my horse in the race . but.. Trump not only could win... .but would have a hard time losing
especially against Hillary of course, she’s a walking/talking disaster for the D party and the D party bosses know it
Oh goody another libtard dimorat voices his opinion
Not a RINO, a Democrat Congresscritter. I know, same thing.
This guy is just Left wing Democrat but not as left wing as Bernie but then again that is not much of a comforting thought because some of these guys make Bernie look moderate on some issues.
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