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Can a practising Roman Catholic in good conscience vote for Arnold?
10/04/2003 | amordei

Posted on 10/04/2003 5:00:07 PM PDT by amordei

I would think not. Contrary to popular perception, states do have some latitude on abortion. However, I am interested in the thoughts of other RCs. Please, no flaming, just honest discourse. Thanks.


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To: amordei
Vote for Arnold then seek absolution in the confessional afterward.
61 posted on 10/05/2003 1:05:07 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: Rudder
Vote for Arnold then seek absolution in the confessional afterward.

Then go home and take a shower?

62 posted on 10/05/2003 1:28:12 AM PDT by EternalVigilance ("Handwashing doesn't remove bloodstains." -Pontius Pilate)
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To: Hotdog; narses; ninenot; The Old Hoosier; nmh; amordei; nickcarraway; chicagolady; ...
Catholics are not allowed by the Church to vote for pro-abortion candidates. As Catholics, we suffer in scandal over many of the acts and/or omissions of our bishops. One of the worst is the failure of so many to turn the gas flame to high under those like Schwarzenkennedy, Doofus and Bustamante, who have the colossal gall and effrontery to claim to be Catholics while cheerily sponsoring and supporting the mass slaughter of the innocent infants in utero.

Bishop Wiegand of Sacramento is one notable exception to the failures of the AmChurch bishops to apply that heat. He has already publicly told Davis that he is NOT to receive the Holy Eucharist within the Diocese of Sacramento. He should add Bustamante and Schwarzenkennedy ASAP after the election. It is too much to hope that Roger Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles will be converted to faithful Catholicism at this late stage of his miserable career but Wiegand is not alone as a genuinely Catholic bishop in Califiornia. There are good reports as to several others including the new bishop of Oakland.

Any Catholic who has any business calling him/herself one will hold his/her loyalty and obedience to legitimately exercised Church authority higher by far than any desire to stroke or mollify general societal popular opinion or to place lesser matters (taxes) above more vital matters (the lives of the innocent) in making voting decisions. Democracy is not God. The form of government known as a republic is not God. Any Catholic who votes for Schwarzenkennedy OR Davis OR Bustamante is voting FOR abortion (among other abominations) and buying off on a full personal share of moral responsibility (guilt) for each abortion thereafter within California.

The irony is that in order to vote "Catholic" in California on Tuesday, one must vote against the "Catholic" candidates and for Tom McClintock, a Godly Christian who is not Catholic and who IS a hero to actual Catholics as he is to actual Republicans. If someone wants to write a book about genuine profiles in courage, one could do much worse than to start with McClintock.

The Catholic Church drafts no one into membership. Anyone is free to leave at any time. Anyone CLAIMING to be Catholic has a moral obligation to act like one and there are moral consequences for not doing so. Just as the Unitarian Universalist may vote as is customary for members of that church, so Catholics, in the US, have the freedom to act as Catholics and to vote as Catholics. Members of gun clubs ought to vote against politicians seeking to zone gun clubs out of their communities. Catholics ought to vote against politicians who seek to pave their way to power over a highway of dead babies. To do otherwise is to succumb to the nefarious notion that Catholicism can be marginalized as a mere eccentricity, inferior somehow to SCOTUS and our smarmy general politician class.

Schwarzenkennedy, Davis and Bustamante, in the absence of public repentance (as public as their denial of the Teaching Magisterium has been) ought to be excommunicated ASAP and publicly so. If Tom McClintock should ever convert, he would be a convert of the significance of Judge Robert Bork or Senator Sam Brownback. As it is, his own Baptist church has every right be very proud indeed to have nurtured and raised up such a Christian man in times like these.

63 posted on 10/05/2003 7:55:32 AM PDT by BlackElk (Schwarzenegger is as Republican as Pete Wilson or George McGovern or Hillary!!!)
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To: opinionator; amordei
Vote for neither Schwarzenkennedy nor Davis nor Bustamante nor ANY OTHER pro-abort.

Voting for Arnold is OUT of the question for anyone who is, in fact, a Catholic, and, on other grounds as well for anyone who is genuinely Catholic. Same answer for any genuine pro-lifer. "He's a baby butcher but a little less so than the other guy" is no moral basis to vote for anyone.

Voting for Arnold is a morally unclean act of major proportions. I realize that this does not sink in to those who think of abortion as a convenience or as no big deal or even as a "constitutional right" or whatever. The opinion of pro-aborts (however pro-Arnold they think their motivation) absolves no one of moral responsibility.

If I did not vote in such an election (I am not Californian so I won't be voting in any event), the election of either Schwarzenkennedy or Bustamante or the retention of Davis would result from the votes of others and would not be my moral burden.

Hence, vote for McClintock.

64 posted on 10/05/2003 8:08:33 AM PDT by BlackElk (Schwarzenegger is as Republican as Pete Wilson or George McGovern or Hillary!!!)
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To: chicagolady; nickcarraway
Has Arnold the Barbarian publicly repented his support of abortion and vowed to amend his life accordingly or not? Whether he groped someone does not begin to compare to this central moral question of abortion. Reagan repented signing a permissive abortion bill and did much that was pro-life thereafter. He was forgiven and given near absolute pro-life support as a consequence.

What has Arnold done by way of repentance?

65 posted on 10/05/2003 8:12:29 AM PDT by BlackElk (Schwarzenegger is as Republican as Pete Wilson or George McGovern or Hillary!!!)
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To: chicagolady; Texas Eagle
CL: If you do not hold the politicians accountable, they will understandably be accountable, in this life, only to NARAL, Planned Barrenhood and the likes of Warren Buffett and Pete "Puppetmaster" Wilson.
66 posted on 10/05/2003 8:19:35 AM PDT by BlackElk (Schwarzenegger is as Republican as Pete Wilson or George McGovern or Hillary!!!)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
It would certainly appear that a Catholic voter (Others can speak for themselves and their churches) who votes for a pro-abort like Arnold, Cruz or Grayout has become materially complicit in the moral crime of abortion. Sorry to be late o this question.

Somehow, "But, gee, God, try to see it my way. Do you realize how much I was paying in taxes under the Democrats?" doesn't seem likely to fool God in that loneliest moment each of us will ever experience.

67 posted on 10/05/2003 8:25:02 AM PDT by BlackElk (Schwarzenegger is as Republican as Pete Wilson or George McGovern or Hillary!!!)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; amordei; TheAngryClam; BlackElk; Gophack; Polycarp
Wow - here for 3 years, 2 minor posts two years ago, and suddenly you're posting anti Schwarzeneggar screeds.

The poster asked a reasonable question. The Catholic Church DOES have a position in this and that position is that Catholics MAY NOT advance the careers of those who advocate grave mortal sin. Worst of all, Schwarzenegger has placed HIMSELF in a deeper state of scandal by receiving holy communion when he is in a state of sin for advocating postions contrary to Catholic teachings, including legalized abortion.

68 posted on 10/05/2003 8:51:54 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan (It's time for Arnold to stop splitting the Republican vote and step aside for the good of the party)
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To: doug from upland
Both of whom are nominally Catholic themselves, just like Arnold.
69 posted on 10/05/2003 10:57:00 AM PDT by TheAngryClam (A proud member of the McClintock Militia)
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To: BlackElk
I am saying Start with yourself.


Tell me what you have done in the past year for women who are thinking orf their abortion options.

What have you done for the pro-life cause.
70 posted on 10/05/2003 12:52:14 PM PDT by chicagolady
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To: BlackElk
#63 Good post. Can't disagree with anything you said.
71 posted on 10/05/2003 4:11:51 PM PDT by nmh
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To: BlackElk
In this particular case, the Church would allow a vote for Arnie if the ONLY alternative was Bustamante. Likely that Arnie would be less bloodthirsty than Busta....

But since McC is still in the race, and has a chance, if small, of winning--the answer is McC.
72 posted on 10/05/2003 5:58:15 PM PDT by ninenot (Democrats make mistakes. RINOs don't correct them.--Chesterton (adapted by Ninenot))
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To: chicagolady
Before retiring from the profession of law, I had the privilege of representing (without fee) 1100 pro-lifers arrested in Connecticut for pro-life direct actions shutting down abortion mills. Thirty of them were criminally convicted (their militancy more than my skill account for the rest). I incorporated crisis pregnancy centers and pro-life and pro-family organizations and served upon their boards. I made opposition to abortion the centerpiece of a Congressional campaign as a Republica nominee in 1974. I now live in a relatively rural area of northwest Illinois far from Connecticut and the allies of a lifetime. Health problems have required my retirement. I grant that my activism of late is on the internet. As always, I do what I can.

How about you?

73 posted on 10/05/2003 9:40:32 PM PDT by BlackElk (Schwarzenegger is as Republican as Pete Wilson or George McGovern or Hillary!!!)
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