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Hi tpaine,

How do you two define reality?

-- I see reality happening all about me, and think it best defined by what happens when I forget to take it into account..
Boy that's a rather abstract definition. Please elaborate on what you mean here.

My actions have consequenses which can hurt. Reality can hurt.

Whereas imagination cannot hurt unless acted upon.

Imagination can hurt too. Ask any paranoid schizophrenic or person with OCD. Some things occur in the mind that are either a result of malfunctioning senses, being lied to and deceived, or any other number of non-imaginary things. Also, a reality that is defined by what hurts or doesn't hurt doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Again, I'm not being confrontational here, just trying to understand what you are saying.

- Thus, we can imagine anything, but acting upon those delusions will bring back reality. Most who deny reality then blame the pain on 'God' or, on their fellow man. - Strange folks.

Seems rather subjective. If it hurts me, I must have been denying reality. You kinda edge towards Buddhism there where the way to avoid pain is to deny want. If you don't want, you won't hurt, but is that real?

-- I see reality happening all about me, and think it best defined by what happens when I forget to take it into account.. My actions have consequenses which can hurt. Reality can hurt.
Whereas imagination cannot hurt unless acted upon.
- Thus, we can imagine anything, but acting upon those delusions will bring back reality.

Most who deny reality then blame the pain on 'God' or, on their fellow man.
- Strange folks

Imagination can hurt too. Ask any paranoid schizophrenic or person with OCD. Some things occur in the mind that are either a result of malfunctioning senses, being lied to and deceived, or any other number of non-imaginary things.

You are, in effect, imagining that you know what is going on in that individuals mind. Unless/until that person acts, [or you do] no harm is done, in reality, to others. -- Get it?

Also, a reality that is defined by what hurts or doesn't hurt doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Again, I'm not being confrontational here, just trying to understand what you are saying.

When I'm in pain, it's reality to me, -- a real action hurt me.
-- Unless, of course I imagine I'm hurt. But my imagining that pain is also an action on my part, even if it is not a mental disease. And that action hurts only me while kept private.

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- Most who deny reality then blame the pain on 'God' or, on their fellow man. - Strange folks.

Seems rather subjective. If it hurts me, I must have been denying reality.

Yep, it's a strange sort of subjectivism. Blame must be assigned to others so that the reality of ones actions can be denied. Catch 22.

You kinda edge towards Buddhism there where the way to avoid pain is to deny want. If you don't want, you won't hurt, but is that real?

Straw budda.. Find a real argument.

I see we have people here who apparently have no conscience or empathy. It is quite easy for someone's mental images to harm another. A mother or father is most certainly damaged by an insane loved one, without any overt action by the loved one. It is also quite easy for a parent to harm a child by inadvertantly showing more love to another.

Reality existed before I was and I'm fairly certain before you were. Thus it certainly existed apart from us and consequently our pain or lack thereof is not an adequate measure of it.