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Greeks 'Borrowed Egyptian Numbers'
BBC ^ | 9-15-2003 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 09/15/2003 11:25:58 AM PDT by blam

Greeks 'borrowed Egyptian numbers'

By Paul Rincon
BBC Science

The astronomers, physicists and mathematicians of ancient Greece were true innovators.

Ancient Greeks used letters and extra symbols to represent digits

But one thing it seems the ancient Greeks did not invent was the counting system on which many of their greatest thinkers based their pioneering calculations.

New research suggests the Greeks borrowed their system known as alphabetic numerals from the Egyptians, and did not develop it themselves as was long believed.

Greek alphabetic numerals were favoured by the mathematician and physicist Archimedes, the scientific philosopher Aristotle and the mathematician Euclid, amongst others.

Trade explosion

An analysis by Dr Stephen Chrisomalis of McGill University in Montreal, Canada, showed striking similarities between Greek alphabetic numerals and Egyptian demotic numerals, used in Egypt from the late 8th Century BC until around AD 450.

Both systems use nine signs in each "base" so that individual units are counted 1-9, tens are counted 10-90 and so on. Both systems also lack a symbol for zero.

Dr Chrisomalis proposes that an explosion in trade between Greece and Egypt after 600 BC led to the system being adopted by the Greeks.

Greek merchants may have seen the demotic system in use in Egypt and adapted it for their own purposes.

"We know there was an enormous amount of contact between the Greeks and Egyptians at this time," Dr Chrisomalis told BBC News Online.

'Plausible' theory

Professor David Joyce, a mathematician at Clark University in Worcester, US, said he had not examined Dr Chrisomalis' research, but thought the link was plausible.

"Egyptians used hieratic and, later, demotic script where the multiple symbols looked more like single symbols," said Professor Joyce.

"Instead of seven vertical strokes, a particular squiggle was used. That's the same scheme used in the Greek alphabetic numerals."

Traditionally, the system is thought to have been developed by Greeks in western Asia Minor, in modern day Turkey.

Between 475 BC and 325 BC, alphabetic numerals fell out of use in favour of a system of written numbers known as acrophonic numerals.

But from the late 4th Century BC onwards, alphabetic numerals became the preferred system throughout the Greek-speaking world.

They were used until the fall of the Byzantine Empire in the 15th Century.

The research is to be published in the journal Antiquity.


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs

1 posted on 09/15/2003 11:25:59 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Just think of the royalty payments that are due...
2 posted on 09/15/2003 11:27:57 AM PDT by polemikos
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To: blam
this stuff goes on all the time. Face it, there are very few ancient history "innovations".

Next year, it will be revealed the ancient egyptians stole the idea of burial pyramids from the "fill in blank"

Given our societies propensity for computer storage, imagine what will be left in 5000 years. Even assuming nothing is blown to bits not much.

Reminds me of an old book called the "cantocal of Lebowitz" (forgive the spelling) following a nuclear war only one holy document survives. Turns out to be some slubs grocery shopping list. But the whole worlds religion becomes based on it.
3 posted on 09/17/2003 3:10:52 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...
A Blast from the Past, 2003. Somehow or other it had never been found -- before now!

Thanks Blam.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

4 posted on 08/02/2006 9:21:32 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, July 27, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: longtermmemmory

"Reminds me of an old book called the "cantocal of Lebowitz" (forgive the spelling) following a nuclear war only one holy document survives. Turns out to be some slubs grocery shopping list. But the whole worlds religion becomes based on it."


That sure beats "Bill And Ted's Excellent Adventure".....:]


5 posted on 08/03/2006 12:12:42 AM PDT by Salamander (And don't forget my Dog; fixed and consequent)
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To: longtermmemmory

Yes everything old is new again.

There are so many holes in the article that is is just another bbc tabloid fluff piece.

next week, the ancient sumerians invented algore and thus the internet...

(ps: canocal of lebowitz, good book)


6 posted on 08/03/2006 6:39:40 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: blam

They had to have a word for zero even if they lacked a symbol since the numbers were used by commerce and the books had to balance, i.e., zero out. The Roman numerals were also Greek letter symbols, the ones they didn't use in Latin.


7 posted on 08/03/2006 8:11:02 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: RightWhale

"since the numbers were used by commerce"

I thought zero meant there was nothing in the till ;-)


8 posted on 08/03/2006 8:35:27 AM PDT by Blind Eye Jones
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To: Blind Eye Jones

Bookkeeper is the second oldest profession. The books must balance. :)


9 posted on 08/03/2006 8:37:52 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Salamander

It's classic. One of the few Sci-Fi books I retained in my home library.


10 posted on 08/03/2006 8:39:16 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Salamander
"That sure beats "Bill And Ted's Excellent Adventure".....:]"

Hey, now!!! That gave birth to "Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey" - A true comedic masterpiece.....and the finest piece of acting by Keanu Reeves.....ever.
11 posted on 08/03/2006 11:54:49 PM PDT by shibumi (".....panta en pasin....." - Origen)
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To: Salamander

FYI: The "Cantocal of Liebowitz" was originally discovered by Offender of the Faith, Zarathud The Incorrigible, Hard Nosed Hermit of Medievil Europe and Apostole of Catastrophe.

(This tidbit offered to increase the Discordia of your Psyche.).......:^)


12 posted on 08/04/2006 12:02:06 AM PDT by shibumi (".....panta en pasin....." - Origen)
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