Help me refute this, please.

A software forum ^ | 7/30/03 | Some lefty

[alnick]

I'm putting together a response to this and could use a little help. There are surely articles from reputable sources here that will refute most or all of this person's points, but I know that I won't be able to find them all.

I'm searching for these as well, but could use the input from anyone interested in helping.

Here's what I'm responding to:

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.”

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq

“U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents.”

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq

“We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq

"Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaida."

State of the Union Address – 1/28/2003

To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any other known terrorist organizations have been revealed. (besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to the US)

"We gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in."

Bush Press Conference 7/14/2003

UN inspectors went into Iraq to search for possible weapons violations from December 2002 into March 2003

And they left why?

Cost - over 200 American lives

How does he get away with this? A Republic Media (Faux, MSNBC, CNN, GE-TV's NBC,etal) dedicated to keeping him in office, because he's good for big business - see post "Betting on Death." And, the scariest reason of all as defined by Media Whores On Line, "Moron Americans" who swallow whatever the media tells them. To paraphrase Mad Magazine, "What me think?"

[alnick]

Thanks.

[visualops]

The Democrats Big Lie

[kellynla]

If you want to know where the WMD are go down to the Tigris River and take a drink. Semper Fi

[StriperSniper]

Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq

I remember that in the end part of the war and the first days afterward, those things were popping up everywhere. Naturally the media downplayed them since they had not been filled with the agents, but were still the shells for chemical weapons.

[gore_sux]

Tell him to be patient, we're just finding the Nazi stuff now:

http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/international.cfm?id=792292003

[StriperSniper]

Not a single aerial vehicle capable of dispersing chemical or biological weapons, has been found anywhere in Iraq

There was a prototype of a small, crude UAV with dispensing capabillities was also found shortly after the main campaign ended. It itself may not have been a threat, but it proved there was a developement program for such a device that would in time become a threat.

Remember the key words in the SOTU were "growing and gathering" not imminent.

[TC Rider]

Many small missiles capable of delivering agents were found months ago. More recently, many aircraft were found buried in the sand. Be patient.

[gore_sux]

"Not a single chemical weapon’s munition has been found anywhere in Iraq"

Even Hans Blix found chemical munitions:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-12-06-iraq-inspectors_x.htm

[FreedomPoster]

Yes, there were any number of empty chemical rockets found, I believe Katuysha-type stuff.

[FreedomPoster]

Nice link; thanks, I'll use that.

[M Kehoe]

Not a drop of any chemical weapons has been found anywhere in Iraq

Technically, this ostrich is correct. For example: precusors chemicals have been found in large quantities, along with binary munitions in large quantities but nothing mixed or loaded. A mobile biological lab scrubbed clean, and mustard agent and cyanide have been found in the Tigris, but this is not a weapon per se. Large quantities of docuements, masks, atrophine, chem suits, along with the facilities to make and put together chemical weapons have been discovered, but then again, no deployed weapons. As of right now.

I could go on about yellow cake, centrifuges, drones, etc. that have been found, but the ostrich probably won't ever believe it, or agree with you. Why? It's called liberalism, and it is a debilitating disease.

5.56mm

[redbaiter]

First I would contact the moderator of the board and get him banned if you can. If it's a software forum he's way out of line posting that stuff. It's worth a try, and it's the right thing to do.

This individual clearly does not understand the role of the 'weapons inspectors'. They are not there to look for anything - though they themselves seemed a little unclear on this point. They are there to accept from Saddam the evidence that he had, in accordance with the terms of the 1991 armistice and various UN resolutions, destroyed his chemical weapons, launch vehiles and dismantled his means of producing these items. Failure on his part to perform these actions, or to provide the proof that he had done these things, is cause for war. Saddam never did any of this stuff, so we went in and removed him.

If you want to have some fun, ask if he's actually read resolution 1441, and if he has any questions about it. Isn't it odd how we never hear about all these resolutions any more?

[visualops]

To date, not a shred of evidence connecting Hussein with Al Qaida or any other known terrorist organizations have been revealed. (besides certain Palestinian groups who represent no direct threat to the US)

Wrong.
To discount organizations involved with Palestinians is ridiculous, as Muslim extremism is by it's very nature tied to the Palestinians and the desire for the demise of Israel.
http://www.terrorismanswers.com/groups/abunidal.html
http://www.specialoperations.com/Terrorism/SOCGuide/Default.htm

Does Iraq have ties with al-Qaeda?
What evidence does the administration offer?
Some Iraqi militants trained in Taliban-run Afghanistan helped Ansar al-Islam, an Islamist militia based in a lawless part of northeast Iraq. The camps of Ansar fighters, who clashed repeatedly with anti-Saddam Kurds, were bombed in the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom. In February 2003, Secretary of State Colin Powell told the U.N. Security Council that Iraq was harboring a terrorist cell led by Abu Musab Zarqawi, a suspected al-Qaeda affiliate and chemical and biological weapons specialist. Powell said al-Zarqawi had both planned the October 2002 assassination of a U.S. diplomat in Jordan and set up a camp in Ansar al-Islam’s territory to train terrorists in the use of chemical weapons. Powell added that senior Iraqi and al-Qaeda leaders had met at least eight times since the early 1990s.

Has Iraq ever used weapons of mass destruction?
Yes. In the 1980s Iran-Iraq War, Iraqi troops repeatedly used poison gas, including mustard gas and the nerve agent sarin, against Iranian soldiers. Iranian officials also accuse Iraq of dropping mustard-gas bombs on Iranian villages. Human Rights Watch reports that Iraq frequently used nerve agents and mustard gas against Iraqi Kurds living in the country’s north. In March 1988, Saddam’s forces reportedly killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds in the town of Halabja with chemical weapons.

[sirchtruth]

OK, this is very simple here's how to respond:

It is not known whether or not WMD have been found. Bush has stated repeatedly that there is evidence, and it will be present at an appropriate time and not at the whim of the Bush haters. If they do not like it tell them to go pound sand.

There have been several reports that al qaida did infact have ties with Saddam. Training camps have been found inside Iraq, Plus there definately was an Al qaida operative who was taken care of inside Iraq.

Please tell them also to stop lying!!!

[TC Rider]

Grounded: An Iraqi Air Force Su-25 fighter jet, partially wrapped in plastic, sits buried in the sands north-east of Baghdad.

Photo by Air Force Master Sgt. T. Collins
A U.S. military search team prepares to move a Cold War-era MiG-25 Foxbat interceptor that was found buried beneath the sands in Iraq. Several MiG-25 and Su-25 ground attack jets have been found buried at al-Taqqadum air field west of Baghdad

It's worth noting that jets are BIG things, WMD are small things. Big things are easier to find. Yet dozens of BIG aircraft remained hidden for months.

[redbaiter]

For background you should also read Rolf Ekeus' article on Iraq's chemical weapons program. He makes the critical distinction, one lost on most of the media, between existing weapons and concealed weapons-development processes and facilities. It is those facilities - such as a factory that's been modified to switch from making fertilizer to making sarin on short notice - that are vastly more difficult to identify. It is absurd to suppose that a couple dozen inspectors shuttling about in a country the size of France are going to turn up stuff like that.

[visualops]

This is the full rundown on Saddam's disregard for UN inspections and the Gulf War cease-fire agreement:

Timeline of UN-Iraq-Coalition Incidents, 1991–2002
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/timeline3.htm#1998

[TC Rider]

Freedom’s Bell & Iraq’s Smoking Guns

[StriperSniper]

There is some UAV backround info in here: How Blix has failed the UN

That being so, it was clearly of more than passing interest that the inspectors were able to locate one or more models of these drones, at the Samarra East flight-test facility north of Baghdad, only a week or so after Powell made his allegation. Inspectors found at least one RPV with a wingspan of seven metres - highly suggestive of a technology that might enable Iraq to threaten neighbours.

When they paid a second unannounced visit to a test facility last week, according to The Washington Post, inspectors caught Iraqi technicians attempting speedily to dismantle another of the drones. If it is the role of the UN to bring "peace and security to the region", this, surely, was of compelling significance.