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The Hobbit Hole IV – The Road Goes Ever On…

Posted on 08/04/2003 9:43:18 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

The Road Goes Ever On…

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.


TOPICS: The Hobbit Hole
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To: ksen
Here a question for our LOTR scholars, did the Dunedain exist before Gondor, or did they come out of Gondor?

The Dunedain are more of a "term" than a "people". The name is for the Men of Numenor, and their descendants in Gondor and Arnor after the great Downfall in the 2nd age.

301 posted on 08/04/2003 1:10:03 PM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("The board is set. The pieces are moving. We come to it at last...the Great Battle of our time.")
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To: Wneighbor
We haven't gotten that far yet...

On another note, I managed to say about two whole sentences to my friend's brother on Sunday. *sigh* Wish I knew for sure that wouldn't work!

302 posted on 08/04/2003 1:10:10 PM PDT by RosieCotton (HHD)
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To: ksen
Elendil was the first of the Dunedan in Middle Earth. Elendil settled in Erebor.

The two sons settled in Gondor until Elendil's death at which time Isildur went to Erebor.

Now, I would have to verify this part - but I was thinking that the Dunedan was the entire royal line decended from Elros. Which would be the royalty of Numenor. I'd have to read up on that part though.
303 posted on 08/04/2003 1:12:39 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: RosieCotton
gee Rosie, talking to the one guy may have loosened you up enough to talk to the other guy. Give me your friend's brother's name and phone number and I'll call him up and see if I can get this whole thing rolling for you. LOL
304 posted on 08/04/2003 1:14:26 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
And wouldn't we actually really say that the guys in Arnor were the Dunedain?
305 posted on 08/04/2003 1:15:24 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: Wneighbor
Yes, the remnants of the people of Arnor became the Dunedain (Rangers) that protected the Shire, among other things.

Gondorians, on the other hand, became a bit more "fruitful".

At least that's how I understand it.
306 posted on 08/04/2003 1:16:49 PM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("The board is set. The pieces are moving. We come to it at last...the Great Battle of our time.")
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To: Wneighbor
From the Encyclopedia of Arda:

Men of Gondor: The Men who dwelt in Gondor and defended the western World from Sauron, in part descended from Elendil and his followers, who founded Gondor after the Downfall of Númenor.

Gondor: The second of the two great nations of Men founded in Middle-earth by Elendil after the Downfall of Númenor, the other being Arnor in the north. Gondor was at first ruled jointly by Elendil's sons Isildur and Anárion. Both Elendil and Anárion were lost in the Siege of Barad-dûr, and his brother Isildur soon afterwards in the Disaster of the Gladden Fields, and so the Kingship of Gondor fell on Anárion's son Meneldil. Thus, the Kings of Gondor were descendants of Anárion through many generations until the time of Eärnur.

Dunedain of the South: The descendants of the Exiles of Númenor who settled in the southern lands of Middle-earth, and founded the South-kingdom of Gondor. Their first independent King was Meneldil, the nephew of Isildur, whose line ruled over Gondor for more than two thousand years. Unlike their cousins in the North, the Dúnedain of the South maintained their realm even after the loss of its Kings, and it survived under the rule of the Stewards until the time of the War of the Ring, when the Kingship was restored.

Dunedain: A term used in Middle-earth for the Men of Númenor and (especially) their descendants in Arnor and Gondor after the Downfall in II 3319.

So it seems that Dunedain are the descendants, like WN said, of the refugees from Numenor.

And since I am, of course, of noble blood I guess I can claim either title. So I can still fetch the occasional Elvish Princess. ;^)

307 posted on 08/04/2003 1:19:01 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
Actually, I belive the Dunedain refer to the Rangers who were the last of the Northern kingdom who lost their claim to kingship to Gondor. Arthedain was the last King of Middle Earth, and his sons, the decendants of Isildur, lost out on a powerstruggle with Gondor over the kingship. The Dunedain were those still loyal to Isildur's Heir and maintained their role as protectors in the North, ie the Rangers.

I could be wrong about that though.

Hey, am noticing a certain Estrogen-like strain occupying previous threads...about time for certain Brave Hobbits to stand forth as counterpoint testosterone representatives...namely :

Pippin,

Merry

Sam


308 posted on 08/04/2003 1:19:24 PM PDT by Alkhin (He thinks I need keeping in order.)
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To: Wneighbor; ItsOurTimeNow
And wouldn't we actually really say that the guys in Arnor were the Dunedain?

In their entirety? I don't think so. Although it does seem that the term 'Dunedain' eventually came to refer almost exclusively to the Rangers.

309 posted on 08/04/2003 1:20:50 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
That's what I was thinking. But, as I recall (fallible to be sure) when referring to the kings of Gondor they're usually referred to as being of Numemorian lineage. And when it is discussed that they intermarry with other people it's talked about as if diluting the Numenorian blood. But, with the northern kingdom, the rulers are referred to not according to their Numenorian lineage but Dunedain.
310 posted on 08/04/2003 1:21:01 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: RosieCotton
On the other note... Now would be the best time to do something really bold on the 'friend's brother' front. Consider it to be an extra free draw at the Lotto.
311 posted on 08/04/2003 1:21:05 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (And whither then? I cannot say)
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To: Alkhin
ie the post about the Dunedain of the South - THAT is true! I was trying to recollect what I had learned about the Rangers and how it was that the North Kingdom failed.

I have always liked this one of Elijah Wood


312 posted on 08/04/2003 1:21:43 PM PDT by Alkhin (He thinks I need keeping in order.)
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To: ksen
And I am really hoping that your wife is either A) that elven princess or B) that you have sedated her and aren't about to be killed before you get this entmoot organized for us.
313 posted on 08/04/2003 1:23:36 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: HairOfTheDog; RosieCotton
I agree with Hair on the friend's brother idea too.
314 posted on 08/04/2003 1:25:30 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: Lil'freeper
You dumb things down, they whine. You spoon-feed them, they snivel. You do most of it for them, they cry about having to do the rest.

Surgeons .. are you sure you're not talking about surgeons??? LOL this sounds alot like the bunch of doctors I work with!!

315 posted on 08/04/2003 1:26:29 PM PDT by proud_2_B_texasgal
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To: Wneighbor; SuziQ
Hey, I was looking for a clipping on the subject in my drafts and came across this little tidbit. I wrote it about a year or more ago. Has nothing to do with the movie pirates of late. But I thought you'd like it anyway.


Yar she sits meandering the bottom of the sea
Weaving corral hullworks with the busy of a bee
Casting topside coiffure to a barnacled tiara
Crackling deep inside her keep she'll weather come t'marah
316 posted on 08/04/2003 1:27:26 PM PDT by My back yard (Sweet is the scene where genial friendship plays the pleasing game of interchanging praiseOWHolmes)
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To: My back yard
Mybackyard, that was GOOD!

Jack Aubrey and Barret Bonden say "argh!" too


317 posted on 08/04/2003 1:29:53 PM PDT by Alkhin (He thinks I need keeping in order.)
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To: proud_2_B_texasgal
well, your surgeons are getting younger and younger. and at some point they were the student's of which we speak.

[shudder]

[extra shudder] (doc mentioned surgeons and my body in the same sentence last month)
318 posted on 08/04/2003 1:29:56 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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To: Wneighbor; Ramius
And I am really hoping that your wife is either A) that elven princess....

My wife outshines that Elven Princess. She is brighter than the light of Earendil, and because of her light I will never lose my way.

Maybe Ramius should be taking notes....

319 posted on 08/04/2003 1:30:32 PM PDT by ksen (HHD;FRM)
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To: My back yard; Sam Cree; Ramius
Very good MBY! Pinging SamCree and Ramius to the pirate poetry of My Back Yard. See post 316
320 posted on 08/04/2003 1:31:53 PM PDT by Wneighbor (U.S. Troops - Best in the World!)
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