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To: werwolf
We disagree about the necessity of a war against Iraq, and we can leave it there. While it appears that a war is likely, nothing is certain.

I think that we're further away from an alternate energy source than you might think. I read recently that most solar cells have to produce for twenty or twenty-five years before they produce as much energy as was required to make them. At that rate, a solar cell would have to work forty years before it even started being a sustainable energy source. It would need twenty years to make up the energy used in its construction and twenty more years to produce the energy that would be used to make its replacement. Then the energy that it produced would start to be useful for all of the uses that we have. I'm not saying that it couldn't work someday, but I think we're a long way off.

Hydrogen cells aren't truly an energy source. Naturally-occurring hydrogen is rare, and we wouldn't be able to harness it in any meaningful way. Hydrogen cells use hydrogen that has been split from other sources. Typically, they split water molecules to produce hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen produced in this way can be used to fuel a hydrogen cell, but the energy from that cell is just the release of the energy that was used to split the water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. With losses due to natural inefficiencies, the amount of energy that comes from the cell will always be less than the energy needed to make the hydrogen.

Wind power might be a true energy source, but I'm not sure. We need to know how long the average windmill has to produce before it produces as much energy as was needed to build the windmill.

I don't mean to be completely discouraging about all of this, but there are big obstacles to making any of these alternatives work. If there weren't these obstacles, I'm sure that we'd already have more energy sources working. Of course, the big alternative is nuclear, but too many people don't like nuclear power.

9 posted on 01/04/2003 10:01:04 AM PST by WFTR
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To: WFTR
Thanks again for a good email back...Your information about alternative energies is helpful, and I agree with you-- there may be alot more work that scientists and the brilliant engineers out there will have to do to get our systems to that level. One interesting 'experiment' will be what happens in Germany..since I have been reading that they are going to attempt to switch something like 25% of their vehicles (trucks and cars) to hydrogen cells within something like 15 years (approximately)...although Germany (like so much of Europe) is comfortable using alot more mass transit than we are, and the distances they need to travel from major city to major city is on average much less than what Americans do as well. Another problem (from what other people have told me) about solar cells is a problem of holding the energy after it has been collected-- although couldn't conventional power plants hold it(?).

The alternative energy question is really a fight for younger people like myself-- it hopefully will be the future which we can create-- more sustainable and lasting ways to run our cars and toys and factories (the sun and wind won't end soon, hopefully!);Choices of energy over energy monopolies, cleaner air over smog, and power from things which do not demand blood sacrifices. It may be somewhat of a dream for now, but a possible dream..and a dream which may have to become a reality sooner than later if the wars become to unpopular and bloody, or if supply exhausts itself.
Do you really think that the energy corporations would have more alternative energies going, if they could? I don't think so...only because business is about their bottomlines..and money..not human beings. Now, there may not be a 'demand' for alternative energy-- since I don't honestly believe that most people know what they are, even. Do you? Is there even a debate over other forms of power, other than oil? It doesn't seem in their (the energy company's) better interests to get us off the 1.00-2.00 a gallon (or whatever the cost is where you live..it's 1.41 here) gas costs. People pay alot more in other places (like Europe, in taxes), yet..heck..you can mostly walk a short distance to work there..or take a 1/2 hr train ride in the biggest cities (at very minimal cost). What are your thoughts? Do you know any way that they can get rid of nuclear waste productively? I think somebody once came up with the idea of sending it up in rockets to blow up in the sun (ha)..that doesn't seem so smart if one of the rockets blows up like the Challenger (then you would have one real zinger of a mess).

We have gotten off the subject of Adams' paper..but thanks for acknowledging that we have a 'gentleman's disagreement' about the Iraq insanity...if I had my way I would put Bush and Saddam together in a pit wearing togas..and let them settle their problems with clubs...then see how long the war would take...and keep our families out of the madness.

10 posted on 01/05/2003 8:54:20 PM PST by werwolf
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To: WFTR
Say..good work on your website! The picture gallery was interesting, and you have all your ideas out there for other people to get in there and read, think and mail you about. Good for you! It takes alot of courage to do that, when you have beliefs you stick to firmly (which is good)-- I hope you don't get too many people who send you hateful, and conscientiously harmful things just because they disagree with you (which can happen sometimes unfortunately). Thanks for the honesty.

If others want to enjoy reading WFTR's thoughts, just scroll up to message #7, and hit the sentence that says:
I Resolve for a Free New Year
Best,
Werwolf
11 posted on 01/05/2003 9:20:46 PM PST by werwolf
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