The Hobbit Hole III - Journey to the Cross-roads!

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

Journey to the Cross-roads
The Two Towers Edition

Come on! Come in! -if you would like to have some seedcakes and a pint and relax a while. (If it is a special occasion, we still have a few bottles of the old wineyards left!)

Our first thread ( New Zealander builds Hobbit hole ) reached 4,100 posts, and we thought that was big. Our second thread (The New Hobbit Hole ) held us for over 48,000 posts, and we loved it dearly. We talked about moving to a new thread for the last 38,000 posts, but we are really slow to muster! Finally, the time has come. Tomorrow (at 12:01 am, to be precise!) The Two Towers comes out, and we start a new chapter.

[RMDupree]

Well , I have to get home. I have to use my Windows XP recovery disk to fix my PC problems at home.

It appears that the virus had done a bit of damage before it was removed, so I have to try and undo it. I've installed Zone Alarm and it's been effective thus far. It used to be free though and now it isn't. Are there any free firewalls left? *sigh*

I tell ya, I love Glen, but he has the worst luck with breaking everything he touches. I hope after the recovery and with the installation of a firewall and the updated virus definitions, this will be the last time I go through this. The computer is brand new for crying out loud!

[ItsOurTimeNow]

Hmm, it's disturbing how many of those fit me.

Me too.

[JenB]

Good afternoon Hair! I have put a few of my feelings to paper. I hope you will indulge me a bit on two subjects because I feel I really have to get this out so I can think about something other than Tolkien.


It seems to me that "Two Towers" was both wider and narrower than the first film, and I think that's a very faithful adaptation of the book. While Frodo's journey becomes less about the trip to Mordor and more about his struggles with the Ring - a facet that I feel was not quite as strongly communicated in the movie - Aragorn's becomes wider as he steps forward as a leader, someone to save the world of Men. Between the two, and with the additional Ent=plot storyline, we really see an explanation of why we fight.

If we fight, it must be because we feel there is something worth fighting for: our lives, our ideals, perhaps, or something more squalid, land or wealth. The message of "Two Towers" is, appropriately, twofold. There are things worth fighting for in this world. Most people would agree with that. But perhaps a little less obvious is the correlatory idea. If there are things worth fighting for, then they must *be* fought for.

Take the Ents, who the movie portrays as old, tired creatures who do not want to fight because they believe that the war does not affect them. It is only when they find their forest has been desecrated, their trees killed, that they go to war - but oh, their wrath! Too often we are willing to watch others fight and do nothing ourselves. It takes a great tragedy, or great offense, to rouse us from our moss-covered slumber.

Take Theoden. Laden with grief for his son and trying to protect his people, he does not wish for open war, trying rather to hold up in a fortress where he thinks his people will be safe. It is not concern for himself that motivates him, only fear for what war will do to his people. But war comes to him anyway. His army is made of old men and young boys, those who have never held a sword and those who no longer can hold one, but they do not waste time pitying themselves. They arm themselves, with swords and spears and rocks, to fight an army ten thousand times stronger.

Take the Elves. This is not their war, they have made it clear. They are leaving Middle Earth, going to a place of safety where they at least believe Sauron holds no power. But they come to fight none the less, to fight for humans, to bleed and give their immortal, ageless lives for mortals. What is death, to an Elf? What is the end to a creature that should by rights not face that fate? It is utterly foreign to them. The death of Haldir was so bitter, so poignant, and the look on his face as he died almost - almost captured the tragedy that an Elf's death would be.

They fight; for life, for freedom, for good. In Middle-Earth good and evil are clear to see. Sometimes in real life it's easy to see who's on the right side too. When it is, when we have something worth fighting for, we should - we must - fight. No matter what the cost, we cannot simply give up, lie down and die.


And on Faramir.... well, it was a barely "adequate" portrayal. But then in the books he's just so great.

Faramir's character was very changed, but he came off almost all right despite that. I think if they had mentioned earlier that he was not allowed to let Frodo go, on pain of death, we would have understood him better. As it was he comes off, at first glance, as Boromir light.

But that's not entirely accurate. There is one great difference in the movie-Faramir from his brother. Faramir never tries to take the Ring for himself. He never stretches out his hand to grasp it. It is telling that he never even touches the Ring; he uses his sword to reveal it. Boromir, in the movie, held the Ring - on the chain, of course. And then when he fell he reached for the Ring and tried to take it for himself.

To Faramir, as to Boromir, Gondor is all. The fall of Gondor would be the end of the world. I do not think either brother had any hope of Gondor standing on its own strength. We know Boromir felt there was no hope - but that was after the Ring had begun to influence him. He thought the Ring was the only way.

Faramir, too, felt the Ring would save Gondor. That is why he would have sent Frodo to Minas Tirith, to his father. That's important, I feel - he would have sent the Ring to his father. I think Faramir always had a bit of a problem with his father. It's hard enough being the gentler son without your father preferring your brother so obviously. In the books it's pretty evident that Faramir, even though he loved his brother dearly, was a bit envious.

The brothers start out dealing with the Ring in the same way. Both see it as a tool to save Gondor, both wish to use the Ring. Boromir submits to the will of the council - what else could he do? Faramir submits to the will of his father, which in this case goes with his own inclinations.

The important moment is when the brothers realize what the Ring means. I think there is an important parallel between Boromir's falling scene and Faramir's opposite bit - the scene in Osgiliath, starting with Sam denouncing Boromir. "I know what it is that troubles you," Boromir said. And Faramir, just before he lets them go, says that at last he understands Frodo. But Boromir does not understand why Frodo is troubled. He does not understand the Ring's nature. He still sees it as a tool. Boromir, like many people, sees power as just a tool. Which is indeed true, but power is like the One Ring. It corrupts, and its possessor may become its slave. Power brings down the great and noble. It twists the small. And sometimes the only person who should be given power is the one who does not desire it. Faramir understands this. Boromir did not. Boromir did not understand how the Ring twists and turns the soul, corrupts on a spiritual level. That is why Boromir reached for the Ring and fell, and why Faramir turned from the temptation.

All the great leaders of the Free Peoples have at some point the chance to claim the Ring. Frodo offers it freely to Gandalf and Galadriel. If Elrond wanted it, who would have denied him? Certainly Frodo was entirely in his power at Rivendell. Aragorn had ample opportunity to take the Ring, had he wished to. Boromir failed the test. Whether or not he redeemed himself later in his death is another debate; I believe he did. What matters is that in the test we see the two brothers for who they truly are. Boromir is not worthy to be a leader, not in Middle Earth where more than brute strength or skill at arms is required. Wisdom, and a noble soul, are necessary. Faramir, by passing the test, shows himself worthy to be Steward as his brother was not.

That said, the movie portrayal of Faramir was a bit harsh. Where was the gentle soul, the intelligent Numenorean who befriended Frodo?

Oh, my. That's way too long, even for such a great movie. I have to see it again! Maybe Saturday or Sunday I'll have time...

[HairOfTheDog]

Great posts.... both on war, and on the character of two brothers.

I can't add a ting to your treatise on why we must fight.... Well put!

On Faramir, I did see him as that gentler and wiser soul, he didn't immediately lunge for the ring, he didn't assault Frodo for it, and indeed treated him with respect... More respect than his brother gave...

And they did have to show him as tempted... no one is uncorruptable... all must face the evil and make a choice about it. I was convinced by (I think) Carton's observation that Faramir was harsh at times in the book, but much of the reason we were afraid was based on Frodo's fears, and how do we see those fears if we can't read Frodo's mind the way we can in the book? - Well, we have Faramir do things that would make Frodo afraid. Yes... knowing at the time they were captured, that all trespassers would be killed or taken before the king... no exceptions... would have helped.

[John Farson]

Thanks for the information. People who are new to these stories don't believe me when I tell them the ages of the characters.

[Corin Stormhands]

I was under the impression we were not going to do the precious bit in this Hole...

I believe we've just been trying to refrain from spam. That was an honest snaig.

(We gots tickets for 8:15!)

[Overtaxed]

Elrond's butt still looks big.

[Corin Stormhands]

The double-standard is sickening.

That's my thought too. I've wanted Lott gone since he squished on Impeachment, but this is just a partisan witch hunt.

[Corin Stormhands]

A Scottish Dwarf?....

You're surprised? After all we've had considerable talk about what a dwarf wears under his snowpants...

[Overtaxed]

They didn't come off as being Scottish in the book.

[HairOfTheDog]

They didn't come off as wearing snowpants in the book!

[Overtaxed]

Snowpants are Scottish? Plaid snowpants?

[Corin Stormhands]

Get better. And I hope the dog comes home soon.

[Corin Stormhands]

They didn't come off as wearing snowpants in the book!

I thought we'd agreed that we were comfortable with a little artistic interpretation...

[Corin Stormhands]

I am caught up now. We've been a chatty bunch...

[Corin Stormhands]

I am caught up now. We've been a chatty bunch...

[Overtaxed]

The only time he needs snowpants is on Carahdras. Is he stuck with them for the rest of the story?

[Corin Stormhands]

Sigh...there's just no way anyone will believe that was an accident...

[HairOfTheDog]

No - No way in heck.

[Corin Stormhands]

I didn't start the snowpants discussion. I was just reminiscing about the old place...