The Hobbit Hole III - Journey to the Cross-roads!

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The Hobbit Hole!

Journey to the Cross-roads
The Two Towers Edition

Come on! Come in! -if you would like to have some seedcakes and a pint and relax a while. (If it is a special occasion, we still have a few bottles of the old wineyards left!)

Our first thread ( New Zealander builds Hobbit hole ) reached 4,100 posts, and we thought that was big. Our second thread (The New Hobbit Hole ) held us for over 48,000 posts, and we loved it dearly. We talked about moving to a new thread for the last 38,000 posts, but we are really slow to muster! Finally, the time has come. Tomorrow (at 12:01 am, to be precise!) The Two Towers comes out, and we start a new chapter.

[Sam Cree]

I disagree with you guys on Sam Gamgee.

I thought Sam and the Gaffer were clearly meant by Tolkien to be lower class.

IMO, JRRT was making a point that dignity and worth are not confined to any classes, that is, if one insists on thinking in terms of "classes" to start with. Sam's loyalty and bravery took a back seat to no one, though perhaps his county wisdom (which even Tolkien referred to as "infuriating") may not have been on the same level as Frodo's.

And surely, there are numerous instances of close and valued friendships between employer and employed, regardless of class.

[Corin Stormhands]

Hullo, we are pi$$ed off!

Just found out thru another parent that the 8th graders are going to the movies tomorrow, then there is a special 8th grade, last week of middle school lunch.

BUT, only the kids with the good grades get to go. The other kids are doing busy work.

Mrs. is going to school at 7:00 a.m. to give 'em what fer, then offer Jr. the chance to come home. Or we just discussed that we may not send him at all.

I told her first question should be "why are ANY of the kids going to the movies?"

[Sam Cree]

Are the movies some kind of a reward, or something? Which ones will they see, and I'm wondering how the transportation and ticketing are arranged.

Weird, also an unexpected surprise, I suppose for matinee customers.

[300winmag]

I disagree with you guys on Sam Gamgee.

I don't think there is that much disagreement here. The Gamgees were a bit lower in social standing than the Baginses, but not by much. Every indication given shows the Gamgees as prosperous farmers like the Cottons and Maggots, with Bilbo and The Gaffer being friends for ages. With The Gaffer getting older, Sam took over the job of gardener at Bag End. That's not a particularly backbreaking job, but it seems to be the only "work" that Sam or his father ever did. You can't keep a couple of hobbits fed on just that, unless there was a larger farming operation that they owned, but someone else managed, while the Baggins garden was more of a "hobby" operation.

Of course, as Tolkien himself knew from the trenches of WW1, war tends to make everyone more socially equal. That's why we have a future king, and human, elven, and dwarvish aristocracy in the same mudhole of war as the average ground-pounder.

[Corin Stormhands]

It's a field trip. Don't know all the details. Since he wasn't offered the opportunity to go, Jr. didn't ask us about it.

Haven't decided if I'll just chalk up middle school as a loss (they really did little or nothing to help Jr. this past year) or if I want to take it to the school board.

You know, five days of school left, last week of middle school. And it's a good 8-9 years before Luke would ever darken their door (if he goes at all)...just not sure I want to fool with it.

[Wneighbor]

Your thoughts are interesting Sam. I see your idea about Tolkien's point of dignity and worth not being confined to class. You could be quite right about that. I just never ever saw Sam and the Gaffer as "lower class." I thought of them as the next door neighbors. The Baggin's had the nicest house in the neighborhood but the Gamgees were the guys next door. I read Tolkien first as a pre-teen. I never thought about the lower classes living "in the neighborhood." "They" lived in other neighborhoods. Could have affected my view. But, after all these years, Sam is not gelled in my brain as a servant.

[Wneighbor]

I told her first question should be "why are ANY of the kids going to the movies?"

Well, you hit a sore spot with me here. I do not understand why so many hours in Myranda's schooling have been devoted to watching movies that were created for the purpose of entertainment. Movies are for after school activities, school is for education. Sure, there are films which are valuable learning tools but not the quantity and quality that Myranda has seen over the years.

[Wneighbor]

You know, five days of school left, last week of middle school. And it's a good 8-9 years before Luke would ever darken their door (if he goes at all)...just not sure I want to fool with it.

I do feel your pain.

One of the nicest things about Myranda's graduation is that maybe I won't have to go raise cain at another school board meeting for the rest of my life.

I have mentioned that one of my closest friends is an attorney. What I haven't mentioned is that 5 years ago he became the "guardian" that I filled in at the "father" slot in Myranda's school records. Myranda's dad terminated his parental rights when she was 4. So, technically that spot on school forms was truly blank. But, my attorney was one of the better known lawyers in the county. I didn't put up with near as much "stuff" after his name appeared as the other guardian.

[Overtaxed]

. I just never ever saw Sam and the Gaffer as "lower class." I thought of them as the next door neighbors.

I don't think the Baginses and the Gamgees were in the same "social circle." The Gamgee's went out drinking with other working folk like Sandyman. Frodo didn't hang out with the Gamgees at the beginning of the book.

[JenB]

Is high school going to be better?

I am glad to hear Jr. made it, though. Wasn't always sure either of you would live out the year.

[HairOfTheDog]

Crap.... Now we will never understand the weather, and that too, is George W. Bush's fault.

Tablets That May Reveal El Nino Secrets Are Feared Lost In Iraq

[Overtaxed]

I thought Algore was the expert in El Nino.

[HairOfTheDog]

Jeepers Corin... I would not have guessed that a field trip would be based on grades. It is a cool enough reward to get to go on the trip, but it seems silly to not just have everyone celebrate the end of the year. The busy work punishment is silly. I think parents would be the better ones to determine how to reward or punish or better motivate Jr. than sticking him in a busy work waste of time day.

[HairOfTheDog]

Apparently not. Apparently Saddam Hussein held the key to El Nino.

[Overtaxed]

I thought Algore was the expert in El Nino.

[Overtaxed]

Doh! How'd that happen?

I was supposed to post: "Who'd a thunk it?!"

[HairOfTheDog]

Apparently not. Apparently Saddam Hussein held the key to El Nino. ;~D

[Overtaxed]

Who'd a thunk it?!

[HairOfTheDog]

Heh....

[HairOfTheDog]

Back to the movie... back to the couch.