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Tolkien Would Have Hated These Movies, Right?
Anitius Severinus Boethius | 12/09/02 | Anitius Severinus Boethius

Posted on 12/09/2002 11:34:19 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius

One of the commonly accepted comments people often make is that Tolkien would have been horrified at the changes that Peter Jackson makes in his film version of The Lord of the Rings. But I can't help but feel that this particular sentiment is flawed in some way.

Granted, Tolkien may have found them odious, but he may have found any film version to his dislike regardless of the textual purity that may have existed. His disdain for the modern, as was a theme in his story, is legendary.

But would Tolkien have objected to the changes on their merit alone? I would like to put forward the argument that he would not have objected strongly, and possibly not at all.

First, it is to his fans (his "horrible cultus" as he referred to them) that the story as finished upon his death in 1973 are considered "canon". He never viewed them that way and indeed edited and changed things throughout the various printings of both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. While he would never had allowed another person to edit his material, he was not above editing themselves. Thus, he could admit, for instance, that Glorfindel's horse should not have had stirrups and that should have been caught and corrected.

Second, we must remember that he was attempting to create a mythic past for England. In dealing with myths and legends, there is never an "official" version, just the most comprehensive, the best translation, etc. Tolkien's relationship with this myth obviously put him in a unique situation that Edith Hamilton would have envied, but I don't think the good Professor would object to another interpretation of these mythic stories; to the contrary, I think he would have been amused, flattered and appreciative that these "myths" are getting a re-telling.

Third, I think that were he to be alive today, at the age of 110 years, he would have much to say of the grand vision of Jackson and the care taken by the team to re-create this "history" of pre-history England. His libraries full of notes and scribbles have become the glimpses of Middle-earth that we can dimly see through his eyes, and I think he would have appreciated a glimpse of Middle-Earth through another's eyes.

Anyway, just my thoughts nine days out from what I hope will be remembered as the movie of the year.


TOPICS: The Hobbit Hole
KEYWORDS: tolkien
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Comments?
1 posted on 12/09/2002 11:34:19 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
I think you could be right. It is nice to think so. Supporting the thought is that in his letters, JRRT clearly indicated his hopes that a movie could be made of LOTR.

Of course this was partially motivated by the desire for financial remuneration, but it certainly leaves the door open for believing that he may well have liked these movies.
2 posted on 12/09/2002 11:40:45 AM PST by Sam Cree
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Perhaps Tolkein would not have liked them simply because he did not like technology, or machines. His fantasy was rural and bucolic.

Peter Jackson made some changes that Tolkein should have--It is curious that JRRT did not see fit to make Arwen a rounded character (left much of the story to the appendices). After all, JRRT allowed Luthien to be an active and even martial elfmaiden. Jackson borrowed from the story of Beren and Luthien to make Aragorn's attachment to Arwen make more sense (particularly after we get to meet Eowyn!).

So Jackson replaced Glorfindel with Arwen, and it looks as if she'll be taking on some of the role of Eladan and Elrohir in Two Towers, as well. Considering the adventures of Luthien, even Jackson's Arwen looks tame.

But from what I understand of the fate of Saruman, I'll have to reserve judgement for the movie.

3 posted on 12/09/2002 11:42:03 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
As one who appreciates the books so very much, I was not displeased with the first movie. What is there is true to the vision of the book. The world portrayed on the screen is very similar to the world imagined by the reader. Granted, the movie concentrated on the "action scenes" and left out or deemphasized some of the idyllic interludes. But that is to be expected in a theatrical release geared for mass consumption. And the movie was already three hours long as it was! My understanding is that the DVDs will include many of the more "literary" scenes that give the books so much of their charm. So this, really, is the best of both worlds: The theatrical releases for the mass audience--with enough there to satisfy us purists--and the DVDs for us hard-core who want more.
4 posted on 12/09/2002 12:03:33 PM PST by Charles Henrickson
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Nice post!... I don't know. I was worried about the part of Tolkien that hated to be edited... But I would like to think he would approve.
5 posted on 12/09/2002 12:10:01 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
The cartoon, however........
6 posted on 12/09/2002 3:20:34 PM PST by El Sordo
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To: El Sordo
Oh come on! - who can not love Where There's a Whip ?

Or, Frodo of the Nine Fingers ?

We are so blessed to have Peter Jackson in charge now.

7 posted on 12/09/2002 3:36:36 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
My kids just watched that cartoon for the Nth time in anticipation of TT and my unwrapping of the FoTR extended DVD. They are old enough now so that they get a good belly laugh from the preposterous liberties taken with the story. Of course, we can all laugh now that something decent (to say the least!) is 1/3 done and 2/3 in the pipeline.
8 posted on 12/09/2002 5:04:31 PM PST by Gordian Blade
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To: HairOfTheDog; Corin Stormhands; Overtaxed; Bear_in_RoseBear; JenB; 2Jedismom; ksen; Penny1; ...
Those of you with The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien might want to take a look at number 207 and 210 for some interesting thoughts he had about an animated version that was discussed during his lifetime.
9 posted on 12/09/2002 6:01:29 PM PST by ecurbh
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To: 2Jedismom; Alkhin; Anitius Severinus Boethius; AUsome Joy; austinTparty; Bear_in_RoseBear; ...

Ring Ping!!

10 posted on 12/09/2002 6:03:20 PM PST by ecurbh
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To: ecurbh
Yes; we must thank God - and Tolkien - that that cartoon was never made. It sounds worse than the Bakshi! Well, maybe not that bad...
11 posted on 12/09/2002 6:06:39 PM PST by JenB
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To: ecurbh
I don't have the letters.... but are those the ones where he said he absolutely did not want Disney to do it? ;~D
12 posted on 12/09/2002 6:07:33 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: El Sordo
Hehe... but I think the Bakshi's worse. I mean some of that is just - just - oh, dear. There's the bit I love where the Nazgul lose control of their horses at the Ford. And the thing makes no sense at all. Then of course there's the Balrog in bedroom slippers, with butterfly wings...
13 posted on 12/09/2002 6:08:18 PM PST by JenB
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To: HairOfTheDog
Don't remember the quote about Disney.

But among the things he takes issue with are turning Radagast into an eagle, orcs with feathers, Galadriel living in a castle with "delicate spires and tiny minarets," and lembas being called a "food concentrate." On second thought, maybe it was Disney!
14 posted on 12/09/2002 6:33:22 PM PST by ecurbh
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
I think tolkien would have been "pleasantly surprised" by the movies. I think he'd probably have had conniption fits over some of the changes, but I'd be willing to bet that it wouldn't be the big changes like Arwen for Glorfindel, it would be little things like Merry & Pippin getting their daggers from Galadriel instead of from the Barrow-Wights, or some of the gratuitous CGI work like the bridge of khazad-dum sequence.

But on the whole I think Tolkien would be pleasantly surprised that any movie version could come *as close* as this one has to his initial vision. I don't think Tolkien would think it was comparable to his own books; a reflection, at best. But I think he'd be amazed at how clear the reflection was.
15 posted on 12/09/2002 6:35:50 PM PST by Anotherpundit
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To: ecurbh
But among the things he takes issue with are turning Radagast into an eagle

Ruh Roh.... PJ turned him into mothra! LOL!

16 posted on 12/09/2002 6:37:19 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: HairOfTheDog
I wonder if Tolkien would of cared for this.
17 posted on 12/09/2002 7:35:21 PM PST by Jalapeno
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To: Jalapeno
Heh.... I saw that.

And just for that... I must return the favor in kind!

The famous Leonard Nimoy Bilbo Baggins video! (right click-save target as)

18 posted on 12/09/2002 7:46:41 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Anitius Severinus Boethius
Interesting analysis. Personally, I think JRRT would have approved (or at least tolerated) some of the changes, disapproved of others. I just wish he was still around to see the movies and tell us what he thinks.

19 posted on 12/09/2002 8:23:58 PM PST by Bear_in_RoseBear
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To: Charles Henrickson
The world portrayed on the screen is very similar to the world imagined by the reader.

And that's the marvel of these films . . . that Jackson has produced a world that satisfies both MY expectations, and YOURS as well. How he does that I don't know, and it's almost spooky, that he can synthesize so many thousands of fantasies.
20 posted on 12/10/2002 6:12:25 AM PST by Xenalyte
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