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OK Idiot...

I will spell it out for you:

1. I am as patriotic as you, possibly more so, being that I espouse the ORIGINAL patriotism of the founding fathers, which is loyalty to one's home FIRST.

2. Two of my Grandfathers fought Nazi Germany, and the comparison was only in the respect that Hitler was smug enough to believe things could never change.

3. The founding fathers believed in the right of secession, and most wrote about that right.

4. I could not give a rats butt wether I win you over or not. You Sir, are the worst possible patriot imaginable, because you are so blind, and wrapping yourself in the flag, to the point of not realizing that if things continue on the same course, the most logical way to SAVE the country may be to divide.

5. I am a veteran of the United States Navy, Honorably Discharged, etc. SO...I would be careful who you imply as a traitor. Very Careful.

The founding fathers believed in the right of secession, and most wrote about that right.

They wrote about a revolutionary right. None of the founders is on the record saying there was a unilateral right to withdraw under U.S. law.

In March, 1833, James Madison wrote to William Cabell Rives as follows:

"The nullifiers it appears, endeavor to shelter themselves under a distinction between a delegation and a surrender of powers. But if the powers be attributes of sovereignty & nationality & the grant of them be perpetual, as is necessarily implied, where not otherwise expressed, sovereignty & nationality are effectually transferred by it, and the dispute about the name, is but a battle of words. The practical result is not indeed left to argument or inference. The words of the Constitution are explicit that the Constitution & laws of the U. S. shall be supreme over the Constitution and laws of the several States; supreme in their exposition and execution as well as in their authority. Without a supremacy in those respects it would be like a scabbard in the hands of a soldier without a sword in it. The imagination itself is startled at the idea of twenty four independent expounders of a rule that cannot exist, but in a meaning and operation, the same for all."

In his letter to Daniel Webster, dated March 13, 1833, James Madison wrote:

"I return my thanks for the copy of your late very powerful speech in the Senate of the U. S. It crushes "nullification" and must hasten an abandonment of "Secession." But this dodges the blow by confounding the claim to secede at will, with the right of seceding from intolerable oppression. The former answers itself, being a violation without cause, of a faith solemnly pledged. The latter is another name only for revolution, about which there is no theoretic controversy."

Secession does not exist as a matter of right, according to Madison, because it is a breach of the "compact" between the States, whereas secession or "revolution" for cause is recognized without question.

There are two ways out of the Constitution -- the amendment process, or revolution.

Walt

3. The founding fathers believed in the right of secession, and most wrote about that right.

How about some documentation for that statement. I'm not aware of even one founder who would have supported unilateral secession as was pushed by the radical fire-eaters. I'm sure all the founders would have supported the right to rebel from intolerable oppression, which for all the whining of the neo-confederates here, none ever show any examples of oppression by the Federal Government on the south before the war.

The words of the founders were many and easily documented. Give us examples where they supported the right to secession because you don't care for the outcome of an election.

I am as patriotic as you, possibly more so

Somehow, that statement seems less than genuine from someone who advocates the armed overthrow of the United States Government. I'm waiting for you next to cast Sophocles' Oedipus as a prime exponent of filial piety.

Two of my Grandfathers fought Nazi Germany, and the comparison was only in the respect that Hitler was smug enough to believe things could never change.

You don't get off that easy.

1. The good deeds of your grandparents do not excuse your own misdeeds.

2. Why Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia? You could have used less provocative comparisons, and you would have too had you not intended to compare the two Evil Empires to the United States of America. Your denials wring hollow.

3. The founding fathers believed in the right of secession, and most wrote about that right.

Really? Please provide evidence to that effect.

the most logical way to SAVE the country may be to divide.

This is, I assume, the "it became necessary to destroy the country in order to save it" line of "reasoning". Well, it has become necessary to inform you that your mind is not operating on all cylinders.

I am a veteran of the United States Navy, Honorably Discharged, etc. SO...I would be careful who you imply as a traitor. Very Carefu0l.

Whoppy foo. Timothy McVeigh and John Muhammed were also honorably discharged servicemen. Your service, while comendable, does not excuse your current actions. I am a wounded and decorated combat vet and see absolutely no reason to treat you with anything other than contempt.