Posted on 10/11/2002 4:58:34 PM PDT by RichardEdward
i would have thought the .223 is a little 'light' for a tpical snipe round.. thought most military/etc snipers used a .308 or more powerful round.. or .. if they were going for quiet.. would =use a subsonic .22 lr
as for the al crapa 'link'..I think there is no link.... afterall, wouldnt they be using eastern block type caliber? since that is what they train with???
anyone have any more info on this?
The .308in./7.65mm former NATO round is similar to the previous US battle round, .30'06 Springfield. These calibers are North American "Big Game" calibers and are reliable up to large bull elk. As a sniper caliber, the .308 was used in VN. It does well in the jungle because the round is heavy and traveling fast so that leaves and twigs won't disturb its path to target.
Other than the AR15/M16 in .223in/5.56 NATO (current), .223 caliber is a "Varmint" caliber. Long shots across flat land with no vegetation to penetrate, to down a coyote or vermin. If you'd lost a good horse to a prairie dog hole you'd want to shoot the "cute" little creatures too.
My guess is the A-hole that is doing the carnage is a disturbed little wimp and is using this caliber because it shoots straight, has a small report, and doesn't kick much.
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE DO.
I do believe the word "sniper" is being misused somewhat- mainly because it fits media pre-conceptions.
To the media, a sniper is anyone who fires a shot from concealment-or without being noticed-regardless of range.
To the media, a rifle is automatically a high-powered rifle- even if it's great grandpaw's old .44/40 lever action.
Similarly, any rifle using the 5.56mm / .223 caliber cartridge is automatically an "assault rifle " - even if it's a single shot pistol ,or a bolt action, small magazine repeating rifle . The media "knows" this is a "military cartridge" - even though it was based on an older .22 centerfire woodchuck/varmint load , developed in the late 50's. The performance of the two rounds would be very nearly identical.
I don't think the 0.223 has much powder behind it when compared with the larger rounds mentioned on this thread. I believe the fifty caliber is the military weapon of choice. Lesser calibers would work for lesser ranges. I don't believe the 0.223 is accurate for much more than 200 yards. Others may disagree. I've heard the media rattling off figures like 400 yards. I wouldn't agree with that.
The combination of the light slug, plus the limited powder behind it, make the 0.223 an unreliable weapon except in peacetime use such as we are seeing. The slug is light enough that wind could affect it's accuracy quite a bit. And the rain this morning would play havoc with it as well.
The 0.308 or 7.62mm rounds are superior to the 0.223. I'd think the 0.308 would be accurate for between 300 and 400 yards. The 7.62 could be accurate for 800 yards or more. But the 50 caliber would be accurate for serveral thousand yards.
The shape of the actual slugs is also important.
With any of these slugs, it's accuracy would depend to a large degree on the weapon used, it's length of barrel and the sighting system employed. Course the final variant is the shooter himself. Evidently this guy has become quite adept at using his weapon.
Ha, I know the feeling. When I was a kid I could light a match with a .22 at a hundred yards using iron peep sights.
When I started shooting on Uncle Sam's ranges, 150 yds with a M-16 and iron sights was easy.
At 50, I can't see my front sight and the target at the same time.
I would think a Thompson Contender would be more of a choice in order to conceal and for accuracy.
IMHO----I would shoot this sick sob in the head and keep him away from the lawyers if he is ever caught.
They are now saying that there are several people who may be involved. Sounds to me like a terrorist situatuion.
Oh dear. Get thee to the range.
Yes, the M16, M4, AR15, etc, etc are chambered in .223.
The military likes .223 because it is light and troops can carry *lots* of ammo. It is not considered a sporting cartridge for whitetail deer. This should tell you something about this "high power" round.
Much of the western word prefers 7.62 NATO aka .308 in Amerispeak. 308 is an excellent sniping round and battle rifle round but the bullet alone weighs more than the entire round of .223.
Everything you ever wanted to know about .223.
An excerpt from:
http://www.snipercentral.com/caliber.htm
5.56x45mm NATO (.223 Rem)
The .223 is used for law enforcement applications, largely because some agencies fear the over penetration of the .308 round in hostage type situations. The .223 generally splinters on impact, allowing almost no excess penetration that could possibly hit innocents, such as hostages. But with this fragmentation and lack of penetration comes a necessity for more precise shot placement, leaving almost no room for error. The .223 has a small temporary wound channel (Stretch cavity), requiring almost a direct hit on the spinal stem in order to get "lights out" on a target. The lighter .223 bullet, with its low ballistic coeffecient, is very susceptible to the effects of wind, which really limits its long range potential. While it is possible to achieve acceptable accuracy at 600 meters on a calm day, it is too risky on the windy days to really consider this round for military sniping purposes. Due to the lack of penetration and lack of energy, the .223 should only be used in very rare circumstances and only on head shots. There is more then one instance when a target has been shot with a perfectly placed center mass shot, and it failed to incapacitate the target. The very heavy .223 bullets (75gr +) are becoming more popular in long range shooting, but the special barrels and rifles required to shoot these high BC bullets are not available as standard sniper rifles to everyday snipers.
Note: In order to stabilize the 69-gr. Bullets and heavier, the twist on the rifle barrel needs to be at least 1:8"
Recommendation: only use the .223 within 100 meters and only take head shots if at all possible. If the .223 is all that your unit has in the way of a sniper rifle, be sure to keep in mind the limitations of the round.
That is to say that most cops have AR-15s or similar rifles in their lockers and would use them to take out a sniper, if they can find him.
Seriously, any caliber from .22 rimfire on up could be used for murder.
I hope they take this !@#$!^^&&!! out soon.
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I'm talking about the same 30-06 used in WWI, WWII, and Korea. It is extremely accurate over long distances. It's trajecory is not influenced by leaves or other small obstructions. Stuff like glass won't stop it. Hell, even the 30 caliber carbine will penetrate through 14 inches of pin3 and still kill someone. I've tested the cartrige.
At the range this so-called sniper is shooting he could use a bow and arrow.
9 mm subsonic works great with a silencer.
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Wait til you're in your 60s. I have days when I see multiple targes and multiple front and rear pistol sights. I adjust my shooting for one set of blurrs. Back in the Army I hit 36 out of 48 targets at 300 yards with an M1 Garand, fast fire.
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