Travelers...who, what and where are they?

[Conservababe]

Since the news and tape of Madelyne Gorman/Toogood's beating of her child has been made public, there seems to be much interest in posters that the mother was an Irish Traveler. I, myself, have done searches on the net to learn more of the Travelers or Gypsies in the USA. I have not found anything that is more interesting than that of the posters who have given their individual experiences with these people. But, it is so much fragmented in many threads. I am hoping that by starting this thread, Freepers can relate their experiences and knowlege of these people, the Travelers. I wish it not to discuss the mother or her actions, necessarily, but to discuss the nature of the clan or cult or whatever or whoever is the Travelers.

[FITZ]

I wonder if this clan has a branch in say, oh, Hope, Arkansas.

Clinton does claim to be Irish and wasn't his father some sort of traveling guy passing through?

[alnick]

You have a very good eye.

[Conservababe]

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this....very informative.

[dennisw]

Another. Key words "murphy village" + traveler


http://www.cincypost.com/2002/jun/29/wecker062902.html

[dennisw]

Another.


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22MURPHY+VILLAGE%22++TRAVELERS&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=01bd5534%24a903c9a0%24406073cc%40default&rnum=10

[dennisw]

Another.


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=188ebab4aa21daec&rnum=9

[gatex]

It came up in the news conference that Toogood does not have a permanent address.

[genefromjersey]

From what I know, they are a curious people: descendants of the Tinker "Freeborn Men", who travelled Ireland in caravans: stealing, telling fortunes, etc. - much like their "true Gypsy" ( Romany ) counterparts.

They are typically a fair skinned, light-haired , round-headed Celtic people, who practice a variation of Catholicism - it includes more than a little of the ancient Goddess worship of the British Isles.

They tend to settle in clusters: setting up their own communities as much as possible. On cluster is is South Carolina; others in Texas and other midwest states.

Their specialty is theft: by deception, when possible; by more direct means when necessary. They sometimes use force. It is fairly common for a team to approach senior citizens and distract whoever answers the door, while other members of the team slip inside and steal whatever they can.

I was surprised to see the woman beat up on her daughter like that: daughters are usually treated with great "honor", taught how to please men at an early age, and more-or-less auctioned off to the highest (Traveler ) bidder. Bride prices are extremely high, and marriage occurs at the verge of puberty : all ideas we find apalling, but they take for granted.

I would guess the mother is an addict.It's the only reason I can see for risking the child's future value as a bride.

[Conservababe]

From what I have learned so far in research is that the Travellers who have become settled instead of nomadic (the settled men still travel for work or scams much of the year) became concerned that the daughters would marry "country men", those outside of the clan, bacause of close proximity. So, they began to encourage engagements between very young members of the clan. The custom is that the future groom works for the father of the future bride for some time to show his worth. So, at the time of the wedding, the family of the bride gives monetary gifts to make up for the loss of the son's contributions to his family's loss of income.

I have no idea if any of this is true, but it is interesting.

[Conservababe]

I am very interested in hearing from Freepers who live around Murphy Village, NC. Evidently, a catholic priest named Murphy helped the Travellers obtain land and they named the town after him as a thank-you. Also, the current priest of Murphy Village has been reportedly closed mouth into all past and present inquiries of the Travellers when asked for interviews.

[fnord]

interesting thread, and links

[gcruse]

Who gives a Tinker's Damn about the Travelers

It's an interesting story.  I hope you've learned
something since posting the above.  Anyway,
it's a tinker's dam, not damn.  But you probably
don't want to learn why that is either.
 

[Conservababe]

Oh, but I would like to know why the difference in Tinker's dam and damn. Please tell me.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

from http://www.richmonville.com/a_short_history.htm

"Have you ever heard something being referred to as; "not being worth a tinkers damn"? It came thusly. In his wanderings, a tinker would pick up a small bit of clay, using it as a "damn" around a spot to be repaired in a pot."

Apparantly others beside me spell dam as damn. Oh well sick the grammarians on me. I still don't give a Tinkers Damn about the Travelers. I'm much more worried about coummunists, socialists, and Muslims who make Travelers look like pillars of hte community.

[genefromjersey]

I'm sure the mother understands our morality quite well. She'd have to in order to ply her trade.

As to her own, she is probably totally amoral to our culture, but someone to look up to in her own.

If you'll pardon a comparison to the Gypsy culture, a young girl is given a gold coin ,pierced for attachment to a necklace, for every successful "score".When she reaches marriageable age,the first thing a prospective suitor looks at is her necklace.If there are many coins on her necklace,she is a desirable choice-regardless of what she looks like.

It's kind of interesting: The Tinkers and Gypsys honor those who are superb thieves and liars.
We elect such people to public office.

[Momma Lou]

I agree with you on the term "tinkers dam'. In order to solder a hole, a dam has to be created to keep the stuff from running all over. As to the spelling, I disagree. Damn is a curse, but I am unsure as to its history. Dam is, well, a dam, as in a beaver dam or a river dam.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

I agree with you on the term "tinkers dam'. In order to solder a hole, a dam has to be created to keep the stuff from running all over. As to the spelling, I disagree. Damn is a curse, but I am unsure as to its history. Dam is, well, a dam, as in a beaver dam or a river dam.

From Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary Main Entry: tinker's damn Variant(s): also tinker's dam /-'dam/ Function: noun Etymology: probably from the tinkers' reputation for blasphemy Date: 1839 : a minimum amount or degree (as of care)

From Microsoft Bookshelf tinker's damn tinker's damn also tinker's dam (tîng´kerz dàm)noun Slang. The smallest degree or amount: property that is not worth a tinker's damn.

[Probably from the reputation of tinkers for cursing.]

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

The etymology is foggy. Apparently the wordsmiths don't give a Tinker's Damn. Either variant is commonly used and as such is acceptable. Most likely the word dam meaning a barrier morphed into damn used as a curse. Anyone using the expression uses it as a term or derision and not as a technique of mending pots.

[FeliciaCat]

Last year I went to England with my boyfriend to visit his family and friends. One of his friends was a childrens Social Worker type who had alot of experience with "Travelors" her the town she worked. It seems some of these Travelors would settle down in cheap rented housing for certain periods of time. Many of them would have animals such as ponys, horses and always lots of dogs.On one of her visits to a traveler family she was surprised to see kitchen sinks, stoves and refridgerators sitting in the yard (or garden as the English say) She almost fell down when she looked in one the windows and a Horse was standing in the Kitchen, just a calm as can be. It seems that stabling your animals in the house is usual practice. (Much of the cooking is done outdoors over open fires).

[JDGreen123]

Thanks for the great details! On the morning political talk show here in Nashville they wanted to know what is an Irish Traveler. I found your post and emailed it to them. They read it on the air and were quite impressed and happy to have the facts.