Vanity: Destructive Dogs

Self | 9/13/02 | Enough_Deceit

[Enough_Deceit]

I know that several of you fellow FReepers are animal enthusiasts. Since FReepers are some of the most intelligent people on the planet, I have come to you for advise.

About six months ago, we adopted our dog, Nellie, who is an Australian Shepherd/Border Collie mix. We adopted her from the pound. She had been their for a month and they were going to put her down the next morning. (I know, I am a pushover.)

We love her very much. We adopted another dog from the pound for her to play with, as we humans don't always play as dogs do. Nellie is the alpha dog, and Daisy is the less dominant one. (Daisy is also Aussie/Border Collie.)

Nellie is a very active dog, and since her breed is a herding one, it is very common for them to nip at peoples' heels when they run. However, she likes to give doggie kisses which eventually turn into play nips. That behavior is my first concern.

These dogs are in and out of the house. I went out yesterday morning to find Nellie chewing on the siding of the house! We reprimanded her, sprayed some sour apple stuff on the area and thought that was the end of it. It is not like these dogs don't have chew things. I've gone to the butcher and have gotten bones for them and they have toys. Last night, we caught her chewing the same area of the house.

I have enrolled Nellie in obedience training that begins in a few weeks. Does anybody have any ideas that could help out? We refuse to let these dogs literally tear our house apart. If the obedience training doesn't work, we will have to find new homes for them. I don't want to do this, so I am hoping that a fellow FReeper may have some ideas as how to solve these dog problems. BTW, Nellie and Daisy are 2 and 1.5 years respectively.

Thanks for your help.

[passionfruit]

I wish I knew! I used to have English Mastiffs. They ate most of my side porch. They were loving with my family, but when they became aggressive with strangers, I had them put to sleep.

[blackdog]

We also have an Australian Shephard, Rose, that commands in Spanish! If she has nothing to do, she will look for any woman with long hair, leap vertical and "grip" her hair, hanging on quite tenaciously if braided or pony-tailed. Talk about freakin a visitor out! Having this quiet, sweet, intense dog hanging from your hairdo rattles even the calmest person. My daughter pins her hair up if Rose is out. Rose is trained for beef cattle. Anything that reminds her of a cow/steer's tail immediately gets a rider if it's not going the way she wants it to.

[general_re]

Not to say it's the case here, but I think that unfortunately a lot of people don't know quite what they're getting into when they select one of these breeds. My only direct experience with Aussies is with the one my neighbors have - the problem is that they're gone working all day, leaving the dog home alone. And the dog is just bananas - not so bad with people (yet), but EXTREMELY aggressive with other dogs, including mine.

I was walking my dog past their house a few months ago, and they had let theirs out into the back yard without realizing that someone had left the gate open. And we're walking along, minding our own business, when that dog comes streaking across the yard, snapping and snarling at my dog, and generally trying to take a chunk out of her. I was able to keep them separated to prevent any real harm until the owners came and got theirs. Nice people, but I told them they have to be more careful - if it happens again, I'll do what I have to in order to protect mine, and if that means snapping the little b****'s neck, so be it.

Good dog ruined by careless owners, IMO...

[KateUTWS]

My border collie is almost three, she went through the terrible two's just like a human child, teething, being destructive, etc. Lola is now a dedicated indoor dog with a tennis ball fetish, she can chase bally 8 hours a day if we would let her. I don't have 20 acres nor do I run sheep but it seems to me Lola is an ideal housedog. She has a regular early morning job of making sure the yard is clear of neighbor cats so our two cats can go outside for a quick visit to the garden. She is a dedicated protector with a knack for making visitors comfortable as long as they throw a ball for her.

Lola has a special fondness for the UPS guy and wishes we would have more packages delivered. Her afternoon job is waiting at the window for her master to come home in his vending truck and making sure he is safe from all neighbor dogs (Could it be the chee-tos).

I see no reason to warn people off owning a border collie because they are active dogs. A daily walk around your neighborhood so she can accustom herself to the local's is a must however. She is asleep under the computer desk as I type this note, however, she leaps to her feet when I move and accompany's me everywhere I go. Expect a lot of companionship from a border collie.

I must admit the first 6 months were full of aggravation, she refused to be crate trained and would eat through the most well constructed cage. She wanted her den to be where I was but it took us 3 crates to find that out.

Attention.....border collies love attention. Love them back and you will be richly rewarded.

[tangerine]

I agree with everything said on this thread so far. I have a Doberman/Border Collie mix.
Active, gung-ho work-a-holics, and smart makes a total terror of owning these dogs for the first two years of their life. How anyone could handle two of these young ones, I can't imagine!!
What broke through to civilized behavior with mine was a very active game of catch and fetch...in a very big field with a large ball, a socker ball, slightly deflated so the dog could grip it. (The ball is put away inbetween workouts.) With this the dog could run as far and fast as she wanted and loved bringing it back for more. Anything smaller was a bore. If i had two dogs, I would exercise one dog at a time like this so they learn to relate to you and any commands or praise that you give about the game, rather than to each other.
Instinctively they fetch and love it, so the game can be varied... such as go out for the
ball, here, there, far, close, drop it or give it to me, wait for the ball to land before going after it, now bring it back to the house. We put it here and you don't get it again until tomorrow. Mine was very pleased to learn all of this and commands learned here such as stay, wait, get, bring....were easy to apply to other situations. They like other
very large toys such as logs to move and big pieces of carpet...but must be taught which
logs and carpet are theirs and which are not...which are 'mine!' (Then 'mine!' also can be applied to may things.)
A second break-through with mine was walks in the woods rather than in populated areas. Populated areas excited the dog, every nose, every smell, every motion, but in the woods, she took on another personality - calm, alert and very attentive to me. (Something I never would have guessed would happen.)
These dogs love work to do, so make devouring a bone work for them - such as I am
doing the computer right now, so you do this bone. Then admire how well it's been
chewed....and go onto the next job...which may be more interactive such a get the mail, take out the trash, collect the laundry, bring in the tools...or sit and wait for me to
prepare your food.

[Electron Wizard]

That's why we named our Border Collie "Darby".

[ru4liberty]

Yes, she cleaned up well, didn't she? :-)

[Vic3O3]

ping

[Vic3O3]

Flyball, if you have time. Search google for 'flyball' and you should get some info. B.C.s are real flyball junkies it seems! Good luck. You could also crate them when you cannot be with them. Or, plant Pyrocantha around your house. Grows like a weed, but with BIG thorns! Nobody wants to mess with pyrocantha!

[Destructor]

Ruff!

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Put your dogs to work, repairing the house. Teach them about good old fashioned A.C.C.O.U.N.T.A.B.I.L.I.T.Y. =[

[HairOfTheDog]

Sounds like you have already gotten good suggestions to keep the dogs busier, and the obedience class is going to be really good for all of you, to... the activity alone will make it will pay off!

After your basic obedience class is over, I also had a really good time training my super-active dog in agility and flyball. When the classes were over, I built some jumps and obstacles in the back yard that I can go play with her for a bit every day, or whenever she is driving me nuts with excess energy! It might be simpler to build an agility course than to get a herd of sheep, as has been suggested!

[SCalGal]

Obedience training always helps.

Try putting Downey fabric softener on the house where the dog is chewing. They are hate that smell.

[SCalGal]

Scratch that "are"...

[Enough_Deceit]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to give some wonderful suggestions. Livestock are not an option where we live. We do spend a great deal of time with these "girls." They like to play "Indy 500" around the pool and then jump in and swim laps. They then dry off by wrestling and bouncing on the trampoline. Goofy dogs. (Equally goofy owners, I must add :-D). Once we get some obedience training under our belts, we'll probably start some flyball/agility training as well.

We have 5 kids and there has been usually someone around to play with. They are probably bored now that the kids are back in school. Their job around our house is to keep an eye out for the cat, guard the family, and scare off our daughter's boyfriend. They also perform guard duty for the children to and from the mailbox and at the park. Tonight we are going to run them ragged at the "bark park."

Again, thanks for all of your help. Take care and God bless.

[Enough_Deceit]

Good suggestion! We're on our way to Lowe's to pick up supplies! ROFLOL!

[Auntie Mame]

Nellie is the alpha dog, and Daisy is the less dominant one.

This is your problem, right here. YOU are the alpha.

Training your dogs is work. The rewards are love, protection, affection, appeciation, kindness, forgiveness, playfulness. Your dogs sound like wonderful animals. Please don't give up on them. They're very young still and just need some training. Good luck!

[afraidfortherepublic]

A Border Collie with nothing to do is like a monkey with a machine gun.

ROTFLOL! and a rescued Golden Retriever bump!

[afraidfortherepublic]

Try Golden Retrieveers or Labs and adopt them from a "rescue" organization. Go on the AKC page and look up your breed, find rescue clubs, and find dozens of dogs to adopt. We adopted the most beautiful Golden Retriever that way in April. He has just finished basic obedience training (a must) and started agility this week. I take him to work with me every day. I thought I'd never have another dog after our previous Golden died four years ago at the age of 15 because no other dog could compare. I was wrong; Max is even better! What a gift he is -- even when he is being challenging.

I got Max from Golden Retriever Rescue of Wisconsin (G.R.R.O.W.) and he arrived housebroken, microchipped, health inspected, all of his shots, named, and neutered. All we've had to do is get to know each other. (and yes, he chews things sometimes -- he's only 1 1/2 years old -- still a puppy.) You've got to provide lots of toys and lots of activities. He lets me know if I'm failing him in that respect. But he's good most of the time and a real joy to have around.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Once we get some obedience training under our belts, we'll probably start some flyball/agility training as well.

Excellent idea. Border Collies and Aussies both do very well at those activities. An hour of obedience with a good trainer and 20 other dogs will wear out most dogs, and agility will challenge them and make them want to sleep afterward. My trainer absolutely will NOT allow the dogs to visit or sniff each other. After an hours class keeping my LARGE Golden from inspecting the other dogs, we're both worn out. But the rule is for everyone's safety, and the dogs quickly learn it.

The most amazing thing is to see 20 dogs in a down stay in the same room -- no one moving and the owners across the room leaning against the wall, or talking to each other. We can do it! Even though my husband said the trainer was delusional when she said that that was shat he was going to learn.