Elizabeth Smart thread, August 24-31, 2002

[IamHD]

I don't know when Utahn children start school, but Elizabeth should/would be starting the 9th grade, soon. :(

[varina davis]

Equally valid is the fact that sometimes people just have a stroke and age 48 is not that uncommon to suffer from one. Seems to me there is a pretty simple medical explanation unrelated to the case.

[cherry]

``They thought he might be brain dead before he went in,'' Russo said. ``Now, it's too early to tell if he will have brain damage if he survives.''

tremendous ramifications here....no Ricci , no confession, no trial...and with Ricci still NOT a SUSPECT in this case, the case may never go anywhere...

IF Ricci can not defend himself because of death or disability...do the cops still pursue him?...Can the cops and DA be sued if no charges are ever brought up and the media , the cops, etc still are connecting him with this crime?..Bella, any anwsers?

I surmise that he had a blood clot...probably pulmonary embolism...that caused immediate SOB and then travelled to his brain....thus, the stroke..

An aneurysm can be congential and many people do not even know they have them....

Doubt very much that stress caused this...the stress of the actual crime if he did it would be more than seeing the parents of the crime victim in court especially since he has already seen them...

[cherry]

"Equally valid is the fact that sometimes people just have a stroke and age 48 is not that uncommon to suffer from one. Seems to me there is a pretty simple medical explanation unrelated to the case."

yes...my dear 48 year old aunt had a stroke at that age....luckily, she was able to come back to 80 to 90% .....of course, she was kind of a drinker and smoked as well....

[varina davis]

Ricci improving today-- MSNBC:

MSNBC STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS SALT LAKE CITY, Aug. 28 — A man described by police as a potential suspect in the disappearance of Elizabeth Smart has undergone an operation after being rushed to a hospital overnight, a Utah prison official told NBC News, and his condition now seems “more hopeful.” Richard Ricci, 48, was taken to the hospital in critical condition after complaining of breathing problems in his jail cell.

Ricci has not been charged in Elizabeth’s disappearance, although the girl’s father has repeatedly said he thinks Ricci was somehow involved.

“HIS CONDITION is more hopeful now, they’re actually saying that he could come out of this,” Utah Department of Corrections spokesman Jack Ford told NBC’s “Today” show.

But Ricci remained in critical condition and on life support. A spokesman for the Salt Lake County sheriff’s department said Ricci probably had suffered an aneurism or a stroke.

Ford said Ricci had called guards Tuesday evening and told them he had trouble breathing. The guards found him sitting on his bed and while they were talking to him, he passed out. They began resuscitation and he was later flown to University Hospital in Salt Lake City, Ford said.

Ford said no drugs or note were found in the cell.

[freedox]

When Edmunds was lying near death in West Virginia, he was placed in strict isolation under U.S. Marshall guard.....does anyone know if similar precautions have been taken with Ricci?

[IamHD]

"tremendous ramifications here....no Ricci , no confession, no trial...and with Ricci still NOT a SUSPECT in this case, the case may never go anywhere.."

Absolutely! The LE better start working overtime.

"IF Ricci can not defend himself because of death or disability...do the cops still pursue him?...

I don't see how they could. What if Ricci lives, but is unable to talk, or comprehend? My father died from stroke, but before this, he couldn't talk or understand at all. All he could say was "yeah." I would imagine that since he has the parole violations, and if he becomes incapacitated, they would confine him to a nursing home under police custody?

"I surmise that he had a blood clot...probably pulmonary embolism...that caused immediate SOB and then travelled to his brain....thus, the stroke..

Me too.

[IamHD]

When I first heard about the Westerfield case, and even towards the end of the trial, I didn't think that this man was guilty. I suppose that it was because he wasn't your *typical* child molester/rapist/murderer. But, today, soon I believe, they are going to have a witness on the stand that will state that there was some monkey business going on with him and her when she was 7 years old. She's 18 now.

[cherry]

"Me too"

lol don't go by what I say...just guessing...

they talked about an aneursym too.....

[Neenah]

Ed has a very different air about him. He seems much more "in control" than he did the last time he appeared on the talk show circuit.

I noticed this last week when he was on the Abrams Report ! I commented on it to a freind that he was almost totally in control. Not down trodden at all. He was interested in his working with Senators on this Alert system, and getting it passed for it to be inacted throughout the country.

[IamHD]

;-) I doubt it was an aneurysm...emboli/stroke sounds more like it. Why would I agree with you? LOL

[varina davis]

Following is the latest update from FoxNews.com. Be sure and note the word "could" in the first graph. The second graph sounds like Dinse thinks Ricci is the key, but again, maybe parsing, so who knows?

Police said finding Elizabeth could depend on whether or not Ricci recovers.

"Clearly if he does not survive that would (have) a big impact on this case and our ability to locate Elizabeth," said Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse said.

He said more would be known about Ricci's condition within two days.

[IamHD]

Just heard that about 12 years ago, there was a family/friend gathering with Westerfield's second wife. Apparently, the 1 or 2 girls that will be testifying, will say that the girls had gone to bed, and Westerfield entered the room. The one girl (possibly the second wife's brother's daughter) heard him come in, and she pretended to be asleep. He stuck his finger in her mouth and was feeling around...he then went to the other side of the bed and did something to the other girl, and something that involved his shorts. He then went back to the 1st girl, and stuck his finger in her mouth again, and she bit him. SICK!

[FR_addict]

Thanks for the update on Westerfield. He had some good defense lawyers that were able to use a lot of smoke and mirrors, especially with the bugs, but when his own son had to testify against him and say that the child porn was not his, I thought the father must be guilty.

It sounds like they wouldn't allow other young girls to testify at the trial since they probably didn't bring charges against him at the time. I'm glad they are allowed to testify in the penalty phase. The jury will know they made the right decision. As long as the jury took, they must have agonized over their decision.

[IamHD]

"He had some good defense lawyers that were able to use a lot of smoke and mirrors, especially with the bugs, but when his own son had to testify against him and say that the child porn was not his, I thought the father must be guilty."

Even up to that point I thought that maybe the son was lying due to the fact that he was looking at porn while his father was being questioned at the PD.

"It sounds like they wouldn't allow other young girls to testify at the trial since they probably didn't bring charges against him at the time."

Actually, at least one of the girls came forward to the prosecutor, but it was already half-way through the trial, so they couldn't bring her testimony in. At the time that this incident occurred, (when the girls were 7) the one told her mother immediately, but of course, Westerfield explained it away. (What I'm hearing from Beth Karras.)

When the jury hears this testimony, I'm sure that they will have peace of mind on their decision. It's really hard to believe that a 50 year old man would all of a sudden do something like this, so this testimony that will be coming in will show that he indeed had these things in his mind for years. I'm wondering if he had ever molested his daughter.

[FR_addict]

My daughter was molested by a teacher, who evidently had been getting away with it for a while.

We took him to court and got a conviction in the second trial. At least he now has a record. I was told by my son what was going on. He was younger than the girl. The molestation involved three girls. His mother and brother all got up in court with their bibles and crosses and lied.

His father had been a minister and a teacher. I'm pretty sure that the whole family knew about the child molestation. I think the father may have been involved in child molestation when he was alive. Other members of the church got up and testified to his great character.

Stupid me, I was taking her over to his house (his mother lived there too) for extra lessons. He was telling me how brilliant she was and needed more challenging work. He was tutoring many other children. Three of us went to court.

This was many years ago, but I still regret being so naive.

[IamHD]

I hope that your daughter is doing well. It just goes to show you that people are sometimes not as they appear, doesn't it?

I was molested myself when I was 7 years old. This was a man that stayed at a model home in my subdivision and he allowed the neighbor kids to play in the house.

Here is a link to a man that tried to lure me into his car when I was 12 years old. I was on my way to school.

http://www.state.mi.us/mdoc/asp/otis2profile.asp?mdocNumber=241194

This man had molested his own nieces, raped his ex-wife's daughter and had NEVER been caught or reported. That is, until he got an 11 year old girl from my church pregnant. He'll be in prison a long time. This idiot went to church every Sunday, and never missed prayer group on Wednesday's. And, the girl's mother knew that he was having sex with her daughter. He made the mother sleep on the couch. (Very weird situation.) He would slap the girl and make her say, "tell me you love me," and he would make her wear her skirts or dresses well below the knee. I used to see them (him and the girl) very early in the morning, together alone, coming from a section of seedy motels. I would tell my daughters that something weird was going on. When the girl came to church with the baby, it looked just like him. (NOBODY even knew that she was pregnant, because she still had a lot of baby fat on her.) They lied to our pastor and tried to pull the wool over the congregation, but I knew in my heart that he was the father. It killed his mother, literally...I'm sure she died of a broken heart.

[cherry]

I hope your dtr and your family is well now.....you did the right thing and you saved a whole bunch of other little girls this terrible trauma.....

thankyou

[Jolly Green]

It's good to see that the All Conspiracy All The Time crowd is out in force today.

Here's my own speculation. With millions of people praying on Elizabeth's behalf, there is only only likely answer. Devine Intervention.