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To: ~Kim4VRWC's~
Dusek's crazy theory of coyotes waiting for two weeks and then "opening up the body to flies" just doesn't fly.

While both Faulkner and Haskell said that yes, flies would take advange of openings created by coyotes to lay eggs, both always mentioned the urogenital or vaginal areas as also being a prime egg-laying site when answering that question. Haskell further stated that if, for some reason, the coyotes waited two weeks to "open up" the body, the newly-exposed underlying organs/tissues would be too decomposed at that stage to be attractive to flies as an egg-laying site. Haskell also said it would be strange for coyotes to wait so long to feed on the body, as a mummified body in such an advanced state would not be so attractive to them. Coyotes normally go for a fresh body.

Conclusion: In the unlikely event, that for some strange reason, both coyotes and flies were not attracted to the body for some two weeks, and then coyotes came and "opened up" the body at that point, there would have been no blow fly larvae in the body at all -- the flies would not have laid eggs in a body whose external areas were mummified and whose internal regions were in such an advanced stage of decomposition. Only cheese skippers and the like would have been attracted at that point, not blow flies.

This is the part of Haskell's testimonly I find EXTREMELY compelling:

Haskell: I'VE SEEN THE GREEN BOTTLE FLY PHAENICIA SERICATA AND ANOTHER SPECIES RELATIVE OF THAT GREEN BOTTLE FLY, THEY COME IN ALMOST IMMEDIATELY. BUT AFTER THE FIRST DAY OR DAY AND A HALF OF DECOMPOSITION, WE DON'T SEE THEM ANY MORE IN THE ATTRACTABILITY AND THE BLACK BLOW FLY THEN COMES IN AND COLONIZES ON SUCCESSIVE DAYS BY LAYING EGGS. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT FLY, THE GREEN BOTTLE FLY, IS A VERY OPPORTUNISTIC -- HE HAS TO COME IN OR SHE HAS TO COME IN AND GRAB THAT FOOD RESOURCE IMMEDIATELY. THAT'S HER SURVIVABILITY FOR HER OFFSPRING. AND AFTER A PASSAGE OF TIME, I WOULD NOT HAVE EXPECTED PHAENICIA SERICATA TO HAVE BEEN THERE IF THE BODY HAD EXPERIENCED MUCH DECOMPOSITION AT ALL.

Q: AND YOU DID FIND PHAENICIA SERICATA THERE, DIDN'T YOU?

A: DR. FAULKNER DID OR DAVID FAULKNER DID.

Q:SO THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH THE NOTION THAT THE BODY WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPOSITED SAY ON FEBRUARY 4TH OR FEBRUARY 3RD OR FEBRUARY 2ND, IS THAT RIGHT?

A ABSOLUTELY.

Taa Daa!!! The body had not decomposed past 36 hours when the green bottle flies laid eggs in it. There were maggots of this green bottle fly present in the body at autopsy. THIS IS THE CLINCHER! I doesn't matter what any ants or coyotes did or didn't do -- if the body had been older than 36 hours when first accessible to insects, THERE WOULD HAVE NO LAVAE of this fly!!! (I suppose freezing/cold storage of the body could be argued, but it certainly couldn't have been placed there by DW in any case.)

351 posted on 08/16/2002 12:06:22 PM PDT by wonders
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To: wonders
Woo-hoo! Wonders, that might be the find of the day!
355 posted on 08/16/2002 12:09:33 PM PDT by small_l_libertarian
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To: wonders
Great find wonders!
363 posted on 08/16/2002 12:11:24 PM PDT by mommya
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To: wonders
Hi Wonders!! Long time no see! Nice informative post. But how much experience have those bug experts had with mummified bodies in Danielle's state or condition? I was under the impression little nor none.

Also, if I recall correctly, many animals could have been the culprit, including but not limited to rodents.


370 posted on 08/16/2002 12:16:24 PM PDT by Freedom2specul8
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To: wonders
the newly-exposed underlying organs/tissues would be too decomposed at that stage

Thanks for reminding me of that. I knew there was another reason why the flies wouldn't bother at a late date, even if the animals had been there - and that was the detail I was missing.
379 posted on 08/16/2002 12:22:53 PM PDT by NatureGirl
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To: wonders
Even if the coyotes didn't find the body, don't you think that the vulchers would have. One way or another, if that body were not wrapped in plastic, insects would have been into it.
384 posted on 08/16/2002 12:27:26 PM PDT by Eva
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To: wonders
Q:SO THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH THE NOTION THAT THE BODY WOULD HAVE BEEN DEPOSITED SAY ON FEBRUARY 4TH OR FEBRUARY 3RD OR FEBRUARY 2ND, IS THAT RIGHT?

A ABSOLUTELY.


KNOCK IT OFF ! Quit clutterin' up the thread with cogent irrefutable facts !
399 posted on 08/16/2002 12:43:07 PM PDT by pyx
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