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Size did matter to Marie-Antoinette
The Observer (U.K.) | 08/04/2002 | Paul Webster

Posted on 08/03/2002 5:14:59 PM PDT by Pokey78

One of the underlying causes of the French Revolution, the disastrous marriage between Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette, has been brought down to size by a meticulous investigation into the royal couple's sexual incompatibility. Put simply, the king was endowed with a ' bracquemart assez considérable' - a rather large penis - and Marie-Antoinette suffered from a condition known in the court as ' l'étroitesse du chemin', a narrow vagina, that made her frigid.

The research by Simone Bertière, a specialist in the lives of France's seventeenth and eighteenth-century queens, shatters the myth of a semi-impotent, foppish king, and a sluttish queen, favourite targets of scurrilous pamphlets that inflamed the mobs of 1789. It also undermines the most influential biography of Marie-Antoinette, written by Stefan Zweig in Vienna in 1932 after he discovered uncensored correspondence between the queen and her domineering mother, the Empress Marie-Theresa.

'Since then, the presumed impotence of Louis and his cowardice in refusing an operation to correct a small physical malformation have been accepted as a matter of fact, sufficient to explain the queen's neurotic instability,' Bertière said, commenting on her 700-page biography, Marie-Antoinette, l'insoumise (the rebel). 'But Zweig did not compare these letters with those sent by the Hapsburg ambassador to the empress which leave no doubt at all that Louis XVI did not suffer from malformation.'

It was not until seven years after marrying Louis XV's orphaned grandson, then the Dauphin, at Versailles in 1770 that Marie-Antoinette, 'a little girl paralysed by terror', lost her virginity. From the first fruitless night the physiological realities which, according to Bertière, nineteenth and twentieth-century historians glossed over, were the object of intense court records, letters and diplomatic exchanges that described their sexual characteristics in detail. But despite the opinion of surgeons that the couple dodged conjugal activity because it was too painful for both of them, Louis's mother-in-law empress insisted that the problem lay wholly with her son-in-law's inadequate penis.

'I refuse to believe that it is my daughter's fault,' the empress wrote to her ambassador at Versailles, maintaining demands for an operation on the king even after several intimate inspections by doctors. They repeatedly said there was no evidence of phimosis, a narrowing of the preputial orifice, a theory that Zweig insisted on after reading nagging letters from the imperial mother-in-law replying to misleading correspondence from her daughter.

Concern at the failure to consummate a marriage, essential for a military alliance between the Bourbons and Hapsburgs, was a matter of recorded clinical analysis from the first weeks. By 1772, Louis XV, notorious for his love life and generous genitalia, tackled his grandson, a virgin at marriage, about his barren union. Louis, then 18, told him that he had tried several times to deflower his wife 'but was always stopped by painful sensations'.

A year later, Louis achieved what was called a 'demi-succès', telling his grandfather that Marie-Antoinette was now 'my wife' after a rare night in the same bed. But she was still considered a virgin in 1777 when Austria's Joseph II, the queen's older brother, questioned the couple about their failure to produce an heir. The Austrian ruler then wrote to his brother Leopold to say that the French king, who succeeded to the throne in 1774, 'had well-conditioned, strong erections and introduced his member, stayed there for two minutes without moving, withdrew without ejaculation, and then, still erect, wished [his wife] good evening. He should be whipped like a donkey to make him discharge in anger'.

Bertiere said that for both king and queen, sex was an 'abominable task' for which the only possible explanation was the physical disparity between them. It was only after more strong words from Joseph II that the unhappy pair conceived a child, a daughter born in 1778, the first of four births, including the future Louis XVII who died as a prisoner in the Temple after his parents were executed in 1793.

Bertière said it would be wrong to blame Marie-Antoinette for sparking off the revolution but 'by her flightiness she hastened the monarchy's discredit'.

'Her conjugal failures, abundantly spread in public, added ridicule to the real virtues of Louis XVI while his complacent attitude towards her completed his reputation for weakness,' the author added.


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To: woofie
.... and bent!
21 posted on 08/03/2002 5:57:51 PM PDT by NotJustAnotherPrettyFace
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To: Pokey78
While we all know photography had not yet been invented ... this OLDE photo of Marie-Antoinette was also discovered by Prof. Bertière's research assistant ...


22 posted on 08/03/2002 6:00:24 PM PDT by 2Trievers
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To: Jonah Hex
I read that Louis needed to have a circumcision in order to have children.

In that case, off with his head!!

Gadzooks, sirrah! Just the foreskin will suffice.

23 posted on 08/03/2002 6:06:05 PM PDT by Ole Okie
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To: Pokey78
The "French Revolution" was an infestation from the cultural civil war thrust upon that nation by a wave of fanatical political correctness which undermined the efforts of the few more sober of public leaders interested in establishing there, a republic.

The violent "Social Democrats" did what they have always done, torn down what works among whatever has displeased them; kill, slaughter, maim ... the usual dehumanization.

True to form, they deny it; it was about "freedom!"

Bull.

It was about their passion for destruction, for constantly lowering the standards to their level.

The killers swept pass the birth of the Republic and dragged most of the civic centers directly into a massacre and darkness of dictatorship by committee: The Directorate.

24 posted on 08/03/2002 6:08:21 PM PDT by First_Salute
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To: Pokey78
"Louis, then 18, told him that he had tried several times to deflower his wife 'but was always stopped by painful sensations'."

Uh, ask her to remove her pantyhose first.........

25 posted on 08/03/2002 6:09:25 PM PDT by Inge_CAV
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To: 2Trievers
Good Lord...
26 posted on 08/03/2002 6:09:42 PM PDT by StoneColdGOP
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To: First_Salute
You mean it wasn't about Louis's jock size?
27 posted on 08/03/2002 6:10:57 PM PDT by operation clinton cleanup
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To: 2Trievers
You ARE trying to get this pulled, er well let me rephase that.
28 posted on 08/03/2002 6:14:12 PM PDT by tet68
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To: StoneColdGOP
LOL ... you know how these urban legends get started ... you must have one or two that ORIGINATED with you floating around ... &;-) Hugs, SC
29 posted on 08/03/2002 6:14:17 PM PDT by 2Trievers
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To: tet68
ROFLOL ... I have more where THAT came from ... wanna' see?

&;-)
30 posted on 08/03/2002 6:15:36 PM PDT by 2Trievers
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Inge_CAV; Pokey78
Don't you think the poster's handle, is perfect for this thread ... Pokey? ROFLOL It was pre-ordained! &;-)
32 posted on 08/03/2002 6:33:27 PM PDT by 2Trievers
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To: Pokey78
Another addition to the "Great Man" theory of history.
33 posted on 08/03/2002 7:22:07 PM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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To: Styria
from ancient problems in the marital sack to the most modern problem:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/81285_viagra03ww.shtml

Chemically castrated predator wants Viagra for marital sex

Saturday, August 3, 2002

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

A chemically castrated sex predator who hopes to have sex with his wife has asked a judge for permission to begin taking Viagra.

Donald Henrickson's doctors support his request, saying it would be theraputic for him to form an appropriate sexual relationship. But the King County Prosecutor's Office and the state Department of Corrections oppose it, saying the drug could foster violent sexual urges.

Henrickson, 53, of Olalla in Kitsap County, has sex crime convictions dating back to 1973, including offenses in King and Pierce counties. He has confessed to molesting more than 30 girls.

After doing time in the state's sex predator program, he was released in 1999 under a slew of conditions -- including one that he receive monthly injections of Depo-Lupron, a drug that reduces testosterone production and inhibits sexual function.

Doctors have already tried reducing his dosage to help him have sex with his wife, but that didn't work. So now they propose letting her administer eight Viagra tablets a month, without taking him off the Depo-Lupron.

He would not be allowed to leave his house for 10 hours after taking a pill, and after a month or so of taking the pills he would have to submit to a polygraph test about his reaction to them.

His doctors include David Yanisch, a forensic services manager at the Special Commitment Center, and state psychiatrist Mark McClung.

But the request was a surprise to Steve Williams, spokesman for the Department of Social and Health Services, which runs the sex predator program.

"The (Special Commitment Center) will begin a review of the recommendation Monday morning," Williams told The News Tribune of Tacoma. "First thing."

McClung said he doesn't expect Viagra to increase Henrickson's deviant sexual urges, but simply to improve his ability to have an erection.

Prosecutors consulted Douglas E. Tucker, a psychiatrist from Berkeley, Calif., about the matter. Tucker told them in a letter that he wasn't aware of any medical literature on the safety of mixing Viagra with Depo-Lupron.

Furthermore, he noted Henrickson's history of failed treatment and dishonesty with the people who treat him.

"It would seem inappropriate to experiment on potentially risky treatment strategies with him," Tucker wrote.

King County Deputy Prosecutor David Hackett agreed.

"If you're going to experiment with two drugs that have opposite effects, it's not a good idea to do that on someone as dangerous as Mr. Henrickson," he said.

If the request is approved, the state would pay for the Viagra, which costs about $10 per pill.


34 posted on 08/03/2002 7:25:51 PM PDT by ValerieUSA
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To: dighton
Origins of 20th Century party song:

Lou-wee, Lou-wee, Lou-wee, Lou-weeeee!
Lou-wee, Lou-wee, Lou-wee, Lou-wie
Lou-wee, Lou-wee, Lou-wee, Lou-weeeee!
Don't use that or I'm gonna die....

parsy the Lomaxian.
35 posted on 08/03/2002 7:28:06 PM PDT by parsifal
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To: Styria
I read that Louis needed to have a circumcision in order to have children.

And what about the poor guy who had to do the cutting? Its a lousy job but the tips are numerous.

36 posted on 08/03/2002 7:29:17 PM PDT by strela
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To: parsifal
There ya go quoting Shakespeare again, parsy the play!
37 posted on 08/03/2002 7:35:24 PM PDT by LurkerNoMore!
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To: strela
Oh that was horrible! Do you really want to hurt me? parsy the groaning.
38 posted on 08/03/2002 7:41:50 PM PDT by parsifal
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To: ValerieUSA
If the request is approved, the state would pay for the Viagra, which costs about $10 per pill.

Your tax dollars at work. (Oh, wait a minute, you don't live up here any more. Sorry... MY tax dollars at work.)

39 posted on 08/03/2002 7:42:20 PM PDT by Washington-Husky
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To: Pokey78
I suppose she was relegated to just eating cake.
40 posted on 08/03/2002 7:48:31 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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