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To: CARDINALRULES
I believe Pete should be allowed into the HOF--based on his on-field performance.

That's about the prime reason he does belong in the Hall of Fame.

Not so sure about the banned from baseball for life --I have changed my view on that a few times (right now I think he should remain banned).

I thought at first, and for a long time, that he should remain banned for life, too...until I actually sat down to read the Dowd Report. There's no question that Rose had been gambling chronically, enough so that he had to be given a time-out...but, I repeat: a finite time out. This was something even Bart Giamatti (who may have been as much a pawn as anything in this affair - Fay Vincent had actually pressed John Down upon the commissioner's office in early 1989...when Peter Ueberroth was finishing his term as commissioner and hoping the Rose matter would just dry up and blow away, and when Bart Giamatti was standing as commissioner-elect, more or less) acknowledged by way of proclaiming as he did that Rose could and should be allowed to apply for his reinstatement after a single year had passed. Giamatti's unexpected death unintentionally screwed that pooch bigtime, thanks to the actions of his successors (real and alleged).

I also want Shoeless Joe to be allowed in.

Ain't gonna happen. For better or worse, the fact that Jackson did at least accept delivery of that $5,000 envelope in the first place, and that he did acknowledge that he at least accepted being in on the fix in its beginning (see Holtzman and Haas's Baseball, Chicago Style), is what kills his chance of making it to Cooperstown. On a personal level, I think Jackson was probably more dumb than dishonest, and he certainly wasn't the instigator or even one of the primary movers of the fix - if anyone should share those dishonours, they are probably first baseman Chick Gandil and shortstop Swede Risberg. But there but for those two errors would Jackson never have lost his eligibility...and would have been a Hall of Famer.
6 posted on 07/26/2002 6:35:40 PM PDT by BluesDuke
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To: BluesDuke
Yeah I know Joe won't be allowed in--but I still think he should be from some of what I have read about the scandal (been years and I can't remember the details--other than he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer --and most likely couldn't read).

I disliked Fay, but I really hate Bugsy and what he has done to the game in the last few years.
He doesn't take all the blame but a large portion of the current problems could have been handled differently.

10 posted on 07/26/2002 6:54:40 PM PDT by CARDINALRULES
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To: BluesDuke
I have to say that I have mixed emotions here. Rose was a hero of mine. He disappointed me. I think he should be in the HoF, but I also think that it will diminish the Hall to a certain extent. I don't have an answer so I'll defer to greater baseball minds.
34 posted on 07/26/2002 8:24:31 PM PDT by Dawgsquat
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