Posted on 07/26/2002 11:29:06 AM PDT by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
This is a chapter discussion of The Two Towers, volume two of the Lord of the Rings. It is a continuation of our discussion of Lord of the Rings that started with Fellowship of the Ring and finished a few weeks back. FoTR discussion thread.
We will cover one section of the book per week. Sometimes short, related chapters may be combined, and the process may evolve as we go to keep everybody happy! If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed. We should be a bit careful with topic and spoilers (especially if we are joined by some reading for the first time) but feel free to draw lines related to other events in the story. If you do misbehave too much you will be sent to Took's Corner. As always, if you want to chit-chat or share other news… I would probably be best to post that in The Hobbit Hole thread.
It is OK this time to share images from the Two Towers (that illustrate the current chapter of course!) They are fun snapshots that show our story coming to life. Use your head, we don't want to slow down the thread too much, but most of us love a few pics in the thread.
Every week I will ping you to the new chapter or section …. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will serve as the Thain of the list.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Besides, we Tolkien fans need something to keep us busy while we wait for the film to come out December 19. This thread will adjust the schedule as necessary to be finished before the film comes out!
A feast for the imagination: The riders who rely on swiftness and movement and the Ents who sometimes never move at all.
The Fall of Gondolin is the very first story about M-e that Tolkien ever wrote. He conceived of it on the feilds of battle during WWI (I think the battle of Somme) where in a 3 day period, 250 thousand men were either killed or injured. Tolkien lost nearly all of his childhood friends during WWI, too.
These experiences and losses premate *everything* Tolkien wrote (at least in regard to Fantasy). It was this sadness, this sense of loss, that I have always felt most deeply and seen most clearly in Tolkien's works. It adds a sense of truth and gravity -- a poignancy -- that few other works ever approach.
Tuor
That is how I view the matter. I think Saruman *was* active during this period. I also think it was Saruman that they saw on the edge of Fangorn later on.
I also agree that Legolas was naturally more resistant to Saruman's power, but also remember in FotR, when Glorfindel met Aragorn and the Hobbits, that he led them for a time and they walked so long that even Aragorn seemed weary at the end, but Glorfindel was tireless. Admittedly, Glorfindel is exceptional even for an Elf, but the fact remains, and Aragorn was exceptional for a Man.
Tuor
And yes, Aragorn is exceptional for a man... I have seen him with my own eyes! (still just giving you a hard time about the film ;~))
Yes, absolutely. First, they saw Saruman and later, of course, met Gandalf (the white).
But she said that when the preview for TTT came on, the theater erupted in cheers for a minute.
"I also think it was Saruman that they saw on the edge of Fangorn later on."
And then when Gandalf appeared in the preview in his white robes and with his long straight hair, someone in the audience cried out "It's Gandalf! and the cheering started again. Apparently lots of folks can't wait to see it, even those who haven't read the book.
It was bad enough enduring the Austin Powers previews just to watch FOTR. :)
Good points, I had forgotten Saruman's "devilry." Certainly his force of will is hindering them and strengthening his servants. He's like a mini-Sauron in so many ways, a Sauron wannabe. Sauron's more powerful and oppressive will hinders the Ringbearer and sustains his servants (and it's withdrawal is thus much more catastrophic). So I don't think Aragorn is imagining the opposition.
And Legolas, as a pure elf, has a kind of natural resistance to all forms of dark magic - excluding, of course, the temptation of the Ring. Speaking of Caradhras, I wonder if the same elven "lightfootedness" that enabled him to walk on top of the snow is a help in keeping up the pace running over the fields of Rohan. I suppose elves never get blisters!
Well, here's my answer!
Well said, thank you. It's a deep mystery that this understanding can be a "great comfort," but it undoubtedly is. In theology I've come across the appropriate phrase "joyful sadness." Not to drift off topic, but it is the flavor of the Cross. In traditional Orthodox iconography, the Cross is often depicted as flowering, bursting in to bud and flower like a living tree. The central Christian mystery of the ultimate triumph coming in the form of defeat, and the way that this prefigures the ultimate destiny of our world, is bound up with the meaning of LOTR.
During my undergraduate days, I took a course on the culture and history of WWI. Read "All Quiet on the Western Front" about that time, maybe for the same course. Would be interesting to go back and read it now as an adult. I imagine that I'd see all kinds of associations to LOTR. The central theme the professor tried to convey was the way that the Great War ground up and spit out the pre-War European understanding of war as ennobling. Certainly a flavor of this in Tolkien's writing. Notable perhaps that he never skips over the aftermath of battle, always spends a few moments on the need to deal with the dead - of both allies and enemies.
Will resist the temptation to jump ahead also, but wanted to mention that it was at this point in reading the books aloud that I started to appreciate the language in a new way. There are subtleties to the vocabulary and word choice that I didn't become aware of until I vocalized them during the banter of the three companions. It's been a great experience, so much so that my family and I have talked about taking Christopher Lee's lead and reading LOTR aloud every year during Lent.
Doing orc voices is hard on the throat though! As is doing Gimli's, as I felt obligated to do a kind of bad brogue like Rhys-Davies uses! The best voice of all though is just ahead, waiting for us in Fangorn... ;-) (hoom hom...)
I was noticing the same last night as I was reading. I'm a few chapters ahead in re-reading the book. And as a wanna be writer, I've been wondering if I can come close to the eloquence as expressed in LOTR.
I'll need to start carrying TTT with me if I'm going to post here! Are we discussing the chapter with the exchange between Aragorn and Eomer, the circle of spears? If so, fascinating to think that although Eomer doesn't know it yet the revelation of Aragorn's kingship also presages Eomer's own kingship. Then there's the matter of the wager with Gimli over Galadriel...
Egad! Could talk about this book for hours on end! Truly the "greatest book of the 20th century!"
'He stands not alone,' said Legoals, bending his bow and fitting an arrow with hands that moved quicker than sight. 'You would die before your stroke fell.'And Aragorn starts "becoming the king".
'Elendil!' he cried. 'I am Aragorn son of Arathorn, and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dunadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil's son of Gondor. Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! Will you aid me or thwart me? Choose swiftly!'Gimli and Legolas looked at their companion in amazement, for they had not seen him in this mood before. He seemed to have grown in stature while Eomer had shrunk; and in his living face they caught a brief vision of the power and majesty of the kings of stone. For a moment it seemed to the eyes of Legolas that a white flame flickered on the brows of Aragorn like a shining crown.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.