Attack of the Clones meets the Lord of the Luddites.

The American Prospect ^ | 5/16/02 | Chris Mooney

[JenB]

Ran across this article at a link from TORn and found it really fascinating. While I don't think that Lord of the Rings is Luddite I do admit that Luddites have embraced it a little too eagerly for some of our likings. Anyone want to comment?

[JenB]

Ring-ping!

[HairOfTheDog]

You know Jen, I am guessing that he would not have minded the Luddite title at all!... Part of the great attraction Tolkien is for me is the complete escape from the artificial world we have created. - I loathe the city and walking on concrete. Middle earth is the place I can go to when the rest of the world seems much too removed from anything that was natural.

Maybe that is why Star Wars fails to appeal to me at the heart. It is a vision of a world of nothing natural... a vast constructed environment that does not look like a place I would want to visit. Middle Earth, I would not visit either, but move in and never leave if I could!

From the article...

This doesn't mean, of course, that either Tolkien fans or Star Wars fans -- if there's any difference -- ...

[snicker] we all look the same to him.

[JenB]

I think I object to the use of "Luddite" because I equate Luddites with those Greenies who don't want us to use any technology, not to make life easier or more interesting. Frankly I don't care what Tolkein thought of washing machines; I don't watch Star Wars for my opinions on bioethics. They're for entertainment, and sometimes a little more, but if they preach something I don't accept I simply throw it out. (For instance, I read science fiction. Most of the authors seem to be devoted atheists and humanists. That doesn't mean I don't read the books, nor does it shake my faith.)

So it's not what the article is calling Tolkien, it's what the article is implying about us that I mind.

[HairOfTheDog]

I suppose... I don't mind Tolkien being called Luddite because he is past tense... He lived and wrote in an even simpler time than now, and perhaps he saw where it was going and didn't like it. I don't blame him for that.

You're right. We are not supposed to consider it a guide book for real life (although I do like the cloaks) but instead a fantasy escape. The non-tech (and yet magical) world he created holds a lot of romance for me, and that attraction I don't mind sharing with the hippies or the greenies. It is OK to share this appreciation with them, IMHO, because it is a good vision. The fact that people from many different ethos love the story speaks to the very basic truths that lay within it... Virtues that are good no matter what your point of view must be right on... on everything else, we have to argue.

The publication this came from is fairly liberal, so the connections it points out to readers are those that are important liberal readers. We just happen to like them too... There are other elements of the story that would be highlighted in a conservative publication (like loyalty, patriotism, freedom), that they may like too (yes they would) even though that writer was conservative. Both sides can like it because it rings true.

[HairOfTheDog]

And he said in the article that the new fans seem to be computer geeks rather than luddite cabin dwellers... so I don't even think the writer is calling us luddite....

[JenB]

I don't know why it annoyed me, but it did. It had interesting points, but it annoyed me, too.

[HairOfTheDog]

You know... I went off and thought about it, and I have come to a realization.

I am, in fact, a Luddite, and feeling fairly unapologetic about it at the moment.

When current events get absolutely horrid, I joke about packing it all in and joining the militia guys that live in our woods (I hear they are short on women)... and there is a hint of truth in the dream. I am never happier or more at peace than when I am camping, or on a trail with my horse in the woods. I sometimes think I really could do it. If some Aragorn came along (probably in the shape of a Montana Militia member) and offered to take me away, I may go. I could leave "all of this" in a heartbeat! but if you look real close I may be stringing cable behind me on the way up there just in case - that would be the only thing I might miss!

[Penny1]

What annoys me about it is that whenever writers discuss this aspect to Tolkien's work, it seems like they're trying to make it sound like all LOTR is about is the evils of technology. Whereas in the book, it's only a small part of the larger story.

In other words, these journalists make way too big a deal out of the "environmental message," blowing it out of proportion to the work itself and dismissing the greater messages of the story.

[JenB]

I'm a child of the 21st century, I think. I can't imagine a world without computers - it's easier to imagine computers without a world! Life without a microwave, telephone, and indoor plumbing is inconcievable. I'm a technonerd - I need the latest technology. I'll be one of the first to get the implants to hook my brain up to a computer network, I'm sure.

The only kind of fantasy world I'd be comfortable in is a very high-magic world. The inverse of Clarke's Law is that sufficient levels of magic are indistinguishable from technology. You won't catch me in the woods freezing my ears off, trying to catch a deer for my supper!

[Penny1]

I would go too...as long as I could take wireless internet with me! ;)

Maybe I am not understanding what a "Luddite" is. Is it just someone who enjoys the outdoors and wants to have some outdoors to enjoy and so is interested in preserving it? Or is it someone who thinks everyone should be made to give up the technology that they've come to depend on, whether or not it's practical?

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, I will write occasionally, if I think to bring a pen.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, in the way I am viewing it, I have a fairly romantic image of it... get rid of all of it, and half the population so I can have some room to roam!

[JenB]

Luddites are anti-technology, some more so than others. Some want no technology more advanced than say, medieval level, others are comfortable with 'necessary' tech like medical equipment but dislike tvs and such. Sometimes it's just used to mean people who can't use/repair/understand technology in general.

[maquiladora]

Interesting read.

[maquiladora]

Ah, great to see yet another LOTR thread galloping over the plains of FRland once again...
Any LOTR news I haven't picked up lately?

[Overtaxed]

Middle Earth, I would not visit either, but move in and never leave if I could!

Only if they had indoor plumbing! What do the out-houses in Rivendell look like?

[HairOfTheDog]

If you notice, there appear to be no bodily functions at all in Middle Earth.

[HairOfTheDog]

Teaser trailer will come out this month... nothing substantial! - waiting waiting waiting!

[Overtaxed]

So it all...ummm....backs up?