Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
And character than the one Tolkien wrote. Now, I'm not one to wail loudly about things being adapted and changed. I don't mind lots of Elven archers showing up at Helm's Deep. I don't mind that the healing of Théoden feels like a frightening "exorcism." All that is actually pretty cool to me. I don't fret much with all those changes from the book.
But David Wenham's Faramir is rather harsh. He is not always likeable. When I read the original text of The Two Towers, I see proof that Faramir is stern but also wise, and a good listener -- he is ultimately very kind and generous to the hobbits...
But the movie version of Faramir is not so openhanded. He keeps the hobbits as prisoners, making sure they know they are prisoners, and seems as prideful and rash as his older brother. It is important that Faramir be likable, for he is a foil to the arrogance of Boromir. In Towers, it is only after an extremely dangerous encounter with the Enemy, where Sam challenges Faramir with a passionate plea, that we see him begin to soften.
They go on to explain why this happens, according to the screen writer - but I still disagree. Thoughts?
Oh, the review is here.
According to his report, Philippa "had some interesting things to say on the above -- basically saying that Faramir's character is completely static in the books, and thus wouldn't translate well filmically. She wanted to extend his character to give him more of a journey, and also seemed to imply that it would seem incongruous were Faramir immediately sea-green incorruptible; whereas all other Men in the film (even Aragorn) definitely have to wrestle with their conscience to a greater or lesser extent."
Now this makes some sense to me. Perhaps this harsher Faramir will have the opportunity to grow and change during the third film. Perhaps he will show some of the charity and wisdom that makes Éowyn fall in love with him. So again I am reminded that this is a very different medium. It is not a novel, so it cannot succeed where a novel would have. It is ill-advised to judge a movie adaptation such as this as one would judge a book. They are just horses of different colors.
So there may be more in movie three.
Thank you bowman! - Looks like we will need you on the wall! The enemy is 10,000 strong, they will be here by Wednesday.
We would sure love to see your bows, if you can post pictures of them somehow!
My "Holiday" party is next week. I get to drive two hours to see people I work from home just to avoid! LOL! Ah well, can't complain too much. Glad you stopped by... be sure to visit our new Hobbit Hole early next week! I am posting it Tuesday. I will make sure there is a seat by the window so you can fletch arrows where the light is better...
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In a message dated 11/21/02 1:47:23 AM Mountain Standard Time, john_farson5@yahoo.com writes:
> The time and care you spend writing these books is
> appreciated. Your stories and characters are
> so compelling I dream about them -- and still argue with
> my friends about the motivations of
> certain characters and entertain pet theories.
Very pleased to hear that. To my mind, that's how you know a character is real. No one argues about cardboard cutouts.
> Once your work is complete it won't be judged by how
> quickly you delivered it to the publisher.
I hope not. Thanks for the thought.
> I just hope the series is finished before I depart this
> mortal coil. :-)
I just hope I finish it before I depart this mortal coil (just joking, I'm in fine health, and never walk in front of buses)/
Keep reading.
George R.R. Martin
I'm not usually, either, but here it is 4:30am and I haven't been able to sleep yet. Oh well, at least I am able to get some moving plans taken care of. Isn't the internet wonderful?
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