Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
I think we're unconsciously trying to reach 30,000 today...
I think that things are just starting to pick up. I suspect we will be seeing more and more new people and returning friends who are starting to get excited showing up and wanting to talk. I would not be surpised if the Hole hit a fever pitch by the end of November or so.
Golly, will my keyboard be able to stand it? Lucky I just bought a new one!
"I would say of course they had a choice. We all do."
Yeah, I think you've summed up the whole point of the thing in two quick sentences.
"I believe even then, (influenced by the Ring) Frodo intended to claim the Ring and attempt (vainly and foolishly) to challenge the Eye."
I don't think so, probably he was thinking it, but still intended too destroy it, though at the end he could not, as none of them could have.
Well, since Corin's not here... I've always seen Pilate and Judas as weak men... and in Judas' case he was destroyed by his weakness. That's why I feel sorry for them.
Yes. Exactly. The thought was starting to grow in his mind and this to me has always been like a slip-up. That "Not yet".
I would agree with you Sam. In fact, I think one could even define morality as the choice between good and evil.
I guess I can't argue that it's evidence of its growing power. But I believe Tolkien is in print as saying that none of them could have resisted its power in the end.
That's where some of Frodo's heroism comes in maybe, understanding the rings deadly power and threat, he still determined to walk into Mordor in pursuit of its destruction, if he could, in that way help the free folk of Middle Earth.
There suddenly upon a ridge appeared a rider, clad in white, shining in the rising sun. Over the low hills the horns were sounding. Behind him, hastening down the long slopes, were a thousand men on foot; their swords were in their hands.
Can you imagine how that's going to look!! We'll see Gandalf on that rearing horse you know, in the trailer, then behind him a thousand men come over the ridge! Oh man oh man, fetch my medicine!
Wow!! You folks have busy busy little Hobbits, Elves and Dwarves this afternoon. I've only been gone a couple of hours and I had to go back 4 pages to catch up, I'm still only in the 250s!
2JM, I had to take my 12 1/2 yr old son to the dentist today to have 2 teeth pulled in advance of braces. It took me 1/2 hour just to get him out of the house into the car. I confess I was rather ugly to the young man! He was SO SCARED! I was trying to convince him that it wasn't going to be that bad, that he'd have Novocaine and probably wouldn't feel that much. I literally had to walk him down the stairs and out into the garage. Well, we got to the dentist 1/2 hour late, so we had to wait for the person they let go in front of us. The upshot is that now he realizes that he was silly to be so afraid, and he's running around the house laughing because he can't feel his upper lip!
I'll keep your father in law and your family in our prayers.
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