The New Hobbit Hole

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The New Hobbit Hole
Concerning Hobbits
The New Hobbit Chronicles

This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.

In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:

Our discussion has been light:

It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog

However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB

Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr

Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog

Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB

Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed

To the very philosophical:

…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla

To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…

…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB

Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog

…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1

Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed

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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom

…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253

Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed

So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.

[JenB]

I like most of that schedule, but you've got us discussing Chapter 4 of part 2 twice. I would put 4 with 5 and do 3 on it's own. (3, "The Ring goes South", should have something interesting to talk about, and if we get bored we can share travel songs). Also, I would do 6 and 7(Lothlorien, Mirror of Galadriel) together, then 8 and 9 (Farewell to Lorien, The Great River), leaving Breaking as its own chapter. But that's just my suggestion, and you're the thread queen, so it's up to you.

[DonnerT]

I like the idea of sections instead of chapters. There is so much in Ch.8 that could be discussed if Ch.9 were included.

[HairOfTheDog]

Some of them just overlap, like in the Ring goes South... they don't actually leave Rivendell for several pages... Should those pages be handled in the Rivendell discussion? - I think so...

and in A Journey in the Dark... They don't actually enter Moria until half-way through chapter 4... so I would include in "The Ring Goes South" everything from when they leave Rivendell to when Moria Gate opens.

If there are parts of chapters discussed twice, it is because the events span both, we would not necessarily be talking about the same events twice.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yes, this section and the Bombadil sections are where the format started stifling the discussion... We have met Strider, and we want to talk about him... the rules should not force us to wait until next week!

[Overtaxed]

Sounds like a good format to me and I don't see that discussing overlapping chapters twice is a problem.

[Sam Cree]

I think you're idea is good...

[BibChr]

It isn't working for me partly because I am able to spend less time online over the weekend, and because I can't read on a schedule. My wife and I are making our way through LOTR again at a wobbly pace (I read until I start saying words that aren't in the text, bringing no end of amusement to Mrs. Phillips; then we go to sleep).

I wish I could, wish things were different, support you in however you do it, and will contribute from memory as I can.

Now, where's the FULL PREVIEW???

Dan

[HairOfTheDog]

The TT Preview? - You still don't have it? criminal! FReepmail me your snail mail address... I will burn you a copy and send it. (Don't everybody ask now, I am not set up to be a CD factory!) You have tried hard enough!

[Penny1]

Hehehe, I plugged in my old hard drive and copied everything over.

:)

I am a very happy hobbit! :)

[BibChr]

Done. You're a wonderful lady. All I got was the partial with the chatty Japanese (?) lady — which is better than nothing, but....

Dan

[HairOfTheDog]

It will go out today... you have FReepmail...

[ksen]

We think the discussion is stifled by limiting us to only one short chapter at a time... and we lose some of the larger themes that take several chapters to develop, SO, Rather than strict "chapter" discussions, we think it might stimulate more interest to break the book into related "sections", that are one to three chapters in length, but deal with the same events...

I like this idea. I vote aye.

-Kevin

[LinnieBeth]

I'm just a LOTR newbie, and I love the stuff that you are posting. It would be nice though if you could tie information gained in later chapters and/or other sources were tied to the current topic.
I realize that IS being done to some extent now, but perhaps we shouldn't worry about "plot spoilers".
I would love to see the information gained in Gondor about Boromir tied to him and the fellowship.???

[HairOfTheDog]

Just a test posting nice little hobbit hole pic

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

Nice picture, and it turned up immediately (thank you, thank you). While I haven't been to the Green Dragon, yet, I soon will turn up there to pontificate, and agree with the idea about combining chapters.

[Penny1]

I like this idea very, very much.

Having a more extensive passage to discuss and having it be less structured might help extend the discussions into the weekend so that those who are limited by having to be at work could join in more...

Anyway, definitely add my "aye" to the list. ;)

[GretchenEE]

Dear HairoftheDog, the problem we have here is the level of the reading audience on the thread, and the solution you have offered looks like a good idea-- put more oars in the water and let us make headway faster with more interesting things to look at than before. ;-)

[HairOfTheDog]

OK - Thanks for all the responses! - Mostly because you were interested, but also you all agree with us about changing! - OK - Tomorrow morning I will post some kind of an ammended Bree, and let everyone know what the new format is. (I would do it tonight but I am afraid I had some friends over and I have been in my pints)

I do agree with Gretchen that, though we should stay on topic, we should not worry a whole lot about spoilers. If for example we see something that is a good foreshadowing of something to come, we should not feel so restricted that we can't mention it... artfully of course.

[MozartLover]

"We have met Strider, and we want to talk about him.."

Amen, Sister.;^)

[MozartLover]

Your plan sounds fine to me.

I expect to be participating more in the future......what happened was,right after I discovered you folks, I got sidetracked by Harry Potter (I know, I know.....but darnit I LIKE the books!!!) and I am now 1/2-way through the 4th book; when that's finished it's back to LOTR full-time.:)