“I swear the bulk of the posters on this forum are totally clueless.”
One certainly is, that’s a given.
This current war with Iran isn’t even 5 months old.
Their big navy is sunk, their airforce has been shot down. They can’t prevent American bombers from flying over Iran at will.
It took 3 1/2 years for Japan to end up in a similar bind.
Japan killed 161,000 American military getting there. Iran has killed 17.
There is nothing stopping us from doing to Iran what we did to Japan other than our own self restraint.
We were willing to slaughter civilians then. Two nights of firebombing Tokyo killed more people than either atomic bomb.
We could burn every city in Iran to the ground faster than what Curtis LeMay was doing to Japan, if we chose to.
But we don’t want to kill civilians. So this might take a bit longer than FR’s hysterics think it should. I hope that they don’t run out of Valium.
true or false. Two nights of firebombing Tokyo killed more people than either atomic bomb.
Completed 3 steps
Mostly true, with an important caveat — it depends on whether you count immediate deaths or the full cumulative toll.
The claim refers to the U.S. firebombing of Tokyo on the night of March 9–10, 1945 (Operation Meetinghouse), the deadliest air raid in history. Here’s how the numbers break down:
Tokyo firebombing (March 9–10, 1945): roughly 90,000–100,000 killed, most in a single night (
Wikipedia
, Britannica, Truman Library).
Hiroshima (Aug. 6, 1945): about 70,000–80,000 immediate deaths, rising to ~140,000 by the end of 1945 once radiation deaths were counted (Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Hiroshima city).
Nagasaki (Aug. 9, 1945): about 40,000 immediate deaths, rising to ~70,000–74,000 by end of 1945 (BBC, ICAN).
So measured by immediate deaths, the Tokyo firebombing did kill more people than either atomic bomb — which is the way this claim is most commonly meant (CNN, BBC).
The caveat: if you count total deaths through the end of 1945, Hiroshima’s cumulative toll (~140,000) eventually surpassed Tokyo’s (~100,000) because radiation sickness kept killing survivors for months. Also, strictly speaking it was one devastating night rather than two — though Tokyo was hit by incendiary raids on several nights throughout the spring of 1945.
Good post. What so many are missing here is any sense of history and context of war.
That said, Iran is missing something Japan had - their Emperor was considered a deity but was in fact pragmatic and ultimately had the best outcome for his people that was practical, in mind. That didn’t include becoming martyrs to be rewarded with, I guess, ghost virgins.
The Mullahs and IRGC don’t give a crap about the Iranian people so long as the regime can pursue their zealotry. They would reduce Iran to North Korea or lower poverty in that quest. The difference from NK is that many Iranians have some clue about the outside world, and many know that even before this war flared up, their economy has declined greatly under the Mullahs and IRGC. That doesn’t even count the severe problems with Iran’s once magnificent water supply system — almost all induced by the gov’t.
Some posters seem to think we need to follow the Russia-Chechnya model and blast Iran into shreds. This is silly. We can fairly easily take out Iran’s refined products supply, which will largely straight-jacket them. That WILL be rough on the population, but by focusing this tactic, we can fairly quickly restore at least livable conditions.
There is another asset the allied Gulf States have, too, but I don’t know if they, or even our DOD / Petey-baby, realize it: I learned yesterday that some 65% of the Saudi population are gamers. Holy Carp — That’s over 23 million people, not counting very likely gamers in other rich West-leaning Gulf nations. Select 10% of them and give them a new game: Smothering Iran with cheap FPV drones. Poland or S. Korea or Philippines or all 3 can produce the many millions of drones. (Poland has millions of Ukie refugees who need productive jobs, and the money from Saudi will boost their economy.)
Can you say “asymmetric”? (Ironic, eh?)
Are logistics leaking into Iran a problem? Not anymore. Missile launchers in tunnels a problem? Not when a nasty UAE drone made in Cebu flies in the minute an entrance is opened. Backed by US air superiority and comms, well, this gives “air superiority” a whole new meaning.
I don’t how fast this level of drone tech can be put to work, large scale, but, the US and its allies have a lot of experience from the Russia-Ukraine war to draw on, and vastly, vastly greater resources than does Iran. IMO, with someone’s foot on the gas, it could start becoming relevant in a month or so.