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To: woodpusher; DiogenesLamp; Pelham
"Before the Civil War we had no large standing Federal army."

After CW, the army was drastically reduced. The permanent army is owed to Woodrow Wilson.

Besides, this has nothing to do with the managerial state of progressive ideology. They aren't quartering troops in our houses - that is not how progressive ideology works. I won't rely on this irrelevant item again.

In looking at your whole list generally, Good job creating such nebulous sounding phrases though! Generic phrases such as this:

"Before the Civil War we had no unapportioned Federal income tax. Before the Civil War we had no Internal Revenue Bureau, later renamed to the Internal Revenue Service, to enforce the unapportioned Federal income tax."

Watch this. Before the Civil war, we had no Obamacare. Before the Civil War, we had no Medicare. Before the Civil War, we had no Airports(I was going to say TSA but it gets more basic than that). Before the Civil War, we had no Department of Education.

Blast that tyrant Lincoln for putting fedgov into healthcare!!!!!! (Note: We should let Barack Obama off the hook since it was not Obama's fault, right? Yes I should admit the truth. Lincoln gave us Obamacare Lincolncare.)(Note 2: None of these are due to CW. It should not need to be said, but I know better.)

You guys do love your nebulous and un-linked claims.

Now. As to who is actually guilty of giving us the income tax, specifically the 16th Amendment? Theodore Roosevelt. We have the 16th Amendment because of the 26th President. He is the guy. He is guilty. After Pollock the income tax was dead. TR gave it new life. That's progressing America for me.

"Before the Civil War we did not have greenbacks."

Well there we go, before the Civil War we did not have asphalt for roads. The world is doomed. /sarc That's not the managerial state. You've got this pattern here. That's not the managerial state. The pattern persists. That's not the managerial state.

"Before the Civil War, the sovereign States decided who were, and were not, citizens of the State. The path to becoming naturalized into a United States citizen flowed through becoming a citizen of a State."

You probably have a point here perhaps. Given its non-relation to the elites/the experts and managerial state of progressivism, its outside my potential views. I suspect you are twisting something but ultimately I do not care. It's not the experts, its not the managers, I do not care.

"Post Civil War, the Federal government was able to progress into the current Federal leviathan. That's progressing America for ya."

I'll fix this for you.

Post Gilded Age, the Federal government was able to progress into the current Federal leviathan.

Pre Gilded Age, the Federal government was NOT able to progress into the current Federal leviathan. That's progressing America for me.

Hence we get to the whole point. You still have not linked anything with any detail whatsoever. The Civil War came, the Civil War went, it had influence for 1 or 2 decades; 2 or 3 decades tops and then it was nothing. It's been nothing ever since.

It was Progressive Ideology that brought the U.S. to its knees - not the Civil War. The Civil War was a big nothing burger. Massive in its day, for sure. Then it was finished. The world moved on. The world has not moved on from Progressivism.

The only managerial item you mentioned specifically was the income tax. In the interest of keeping these posts shorter...... Expect that to be our only future discussion point, should we continue - or else you got other managerial topics?

I doubt you do.

28 posted on 03/16/2026 7:10:18 AM PDT by ProgressingAmerica (The U.S. Constitution is not a suicide pact. Progressivism is a suicide pact.)
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To: ProgressingAmerica
"Before the Civil War we had no large standing Federal army."

After CW, the army was drastically reduced.

Before the Civil War, Lincoln could call up a force of 75,000 men. There was no legal authority to maintain a large standing army. Now we have one. The legal authority changed, apparently forever.

I'm surprised you find the IRS, created to enforce the income tax, to be somehow nebulous. Most folks would be surprised to learn it was created in 1862. I linked the IRS from 1862 to the present day.

Greenbacks were the first fiat currency issued by the United States. You may be too young to remember silver certificates issued by the U.S. Treasury. Now we have Federal Reserve Notes backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, not backed by anything but good faith, like greenbacks. Inflatable. They can simply prijnt more money and make all the money under your mattress worth less.

Watch this. Before the Civil war, we had no Obamacare. Before the Civil War, we had no Medicare. Before the Civil War, we had no Airports(I was going to say TSA but it gets more basic than that). Before the Civil War, we had no Department of Education.

And neither during the war, nor as a result of post-war legal changes, did we have Obamacare, Medicare, airports, TSA, or DoE. You need to take something for your diarrhea.

The relationship between the States and the Federal government was permanently reversed. With 14A, States have no say in who are their citizens.

46 posted on 03/16/2026 2:31:09 PM PDT by woodpusher
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