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To: FLT-bird; Ditto; x; Rockingham; ClearCase_guy
FLT-bird: "You overinflate the amount of cotton produced by large plantations because you ignore their role as bundlers/wholesalers.
A large plantation owner would buy up all the cotton grown by the small/family farmers around him for a slightly discounted price and then bundle it with his own prior to arranging shipping for the cotton his plantation produced.
This tends to wipe out the production of yeomen farmers and make it appear as though the plantations produced all of it - which was not the case."

Sure, no doubt some of that is true.
However, Pareto's law of economics works in almost every circumstance -- 20% of producers make 80% of the product.
In 1860 there were roughly 300,000 cotton growing farms, of which 20% = 60,000 plantations with more than 25 slaves each.
These people were genuinely wealthy and lived lives envied by the other 80% of cotton growers who contributed relatively few bales -- <1 million of the 4.5 million standard 500 lb. bales produced in 1860.

FLT-bird: "Any of a number of newspapers on all sides, writers, politicians and tax experts have all attested that the Southern states did indeed pay the vast bulk of the Tariff.
Its laughable that some PCer now thinks he knows better how the economy worked than the people who lived back then and saw it with their own eyes and in their own bank accounts."

It was political propaganda then, just as it is today, since the "vast bulk of the Tariff" (90%) was paid in New York, Boston & Philadelphia.
Those tariffs were paid by Northern customers, not Southern planters.

What's true is that ~50% of 1860 US exports were cotton products, and that 90% of planters were paid for their produce at their property gates (by factors) or Freight On Board in New Orleans, or other ports (by British or Northern merchants).
Southern planters had nothing to do with selling their cotton in England or France and certainly did not buy foreign products for sale in New York, Boston & Philadelphia.
They absolutely did not pay tariffs on products sold to Northern customers out of bonded warehouses in New York, Boston & Philadelphia.

412 posted on 03/27/2026 5:31:04 PM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK
Sure, no doubt some of that is true. However, Pareto's law of economics works in almost every circumstance -- 20% of producers make 80% of the product. In 1860 there were roughly 300,000 cotton growing farms, of which 20% = 60,000 plantations with more than 25 slaves each. These people were genuinely wealthy and lived lives envied by the other 80% of cotton growers who contributed relatively few bales -- <1 million of the 4.5 million standard 500 lb. bales produced in 1860.

No doubt that large plantations with lots of slaves produced a lot of cotton. That said....there were a LOT of yeoman farmers with far more land under cultivation. The amount of cotton they were producing when added together was substantial.

It was political propaganda then, just as it is today, since the "vast bulk of the Tariff" (90%) was paid in New York, Boston & Philadelphia. Those tariffs were paid by Northern customers, not Southern planters.

No. The money came out of Southerner's pockets. It meant reduced sales of their cash crops and reduced prices for their cash crops.

What's true is that ~50% of 1860 US exports were cotton products, and that 90% of planters were paid for their produce at their property gates (by factors) or Freight On Board in New Orleans, or other ports (by British or Northern merchants). Southern planters had nothing to do with selling their cotton in England or France and certainly did not buy foreign products for sale in New York, Boston & Philadelphia. They absolutely did not pay tariffs on products sold to Northern customers out of bonded warehouses in New York, Boston & Philadelphia.

They got less money than they otherwise would have for their crops AND they paid more money for the manufactured goods they needed to buy. They absolutely did pay the vast majority of the tariff. I've posted zillions of quotes from everybody on all sides at the time saying Southerners paid the vast majority of the tariff. Its laughable for you to claim you understand the economy now better than the people who were alive at the time.

413 posted on 03/27/2026 7:00:46 PM PDT by FLT-bird
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