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Posted on 11/15/2025 4:05:37 PM PST by Jonty30
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Mohammed is a fictional prophet. Someone created him years after he was alleged to have lived as the rule maker for that religion. Researchers found that Mohammed originally was a title for a ruler, not a person. Curiously, Muslims believe that Christians and Jews are corrupted forms of Islam, rather than the opposite.
Mohammed was an Edomite from Petra. This is extensively documented in Dan Gibson’s research. Petra was the initial capital of Islam. For the first 200 years of Islam’s conquests, Mosques pointed to Petra. A civil war in Islam between the Umayyad Muslims in Damascus and the Edomites in Petra drove the Edomites to Mecca around the 9th Century. From then on Mosques faced Mecca
“Islam started with Jewish Sadducee leaders, prayers, calendar and sharia.”
No. It probably started with Arianism.
“Some of the first Christians to encounter Muslims in the 8th and 9th centuries did not view Islam as a new religion. Rather, people like John of Damascus, in his work, De Haeresibus, believed Islam was simply an old-style Christian heresy dressed in new garb.
One codex of John’s book describes his belief that Jews, Arians, and Nestorians were the cause behind Muhammad’s religion. From the Arians, Muhammad learned that Jesus was created and not eternal. From the Nestorians, Muhammad learned to place a stress on Christ’s humanity. “
https://www.gcrr.org/fun-facts/islam%3A-an-old-christian-heresy%3F
Or it might have sprung entirely from the overactive imagination of a an addlebrained Arab.
Actually, no. It is available along with comments to be seen. One comment speaks well:
John Heaton -- "Karl Klefsgård You're promoting mumbo jumbo conspiracy theory nonsense."It is indeed mumbo-jumbo. The argument(s) "rise" to the level of childish things. Not every thing one finds on Facebook or YouTube is well researched. This is "mumbo-jumbo."Islamic Origins -- Karl Klefsgård -- 15 November 2025
Source: Karl Klefsgård Facebook
Citing a small snippet from the "Reliance of the Traveler" in a graphic shows naivete. But if one wants to "see" Karl Klefsgård in scholarly action, so to speak, one can visit his YouTube channel -- with its ONE subscriber and ONE video. He re-posts a 49 minute video in Swedish by Stefan Gustavsson, posted 15 April 2015.
See: Karl Klefsgård @karlklefsgard3567 • 1 subscriber Joined YouTube Joined Jan 28, 2012.As to the rabbi mentioned, he is a "oner" and general liberal nutcase.
See: Jewish Rabbi Admits Islam is the Oldest Religion "Rabbi Ben Abrahamson" on an Islamic site, IslamiCity.Var försiktig med ditt stipendium.
Islam is Satan’s counterstroke to the resurrection of Jesus - a fake religion that is a mirror image of Christianity.
And then again, it may not have.
From Grok:
Maimonides (Rambam, 1138–1204) explicitly linked the Karaites and the Sadducees, viewing the former as a modern revival or continuation of the latter's errors.
Key Evidence from His Writings
1. Commentary on the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 10:1, Pereq Heleq): In his famous "Thirteenth Principle of Faith," Maimonides states that those who deny the Oral Torah (the rabbinic tradition) have no share in the World to Come. He groups them with heretics and explicitly identifies Karaites as followers of Zadok and Boethus (the founders of the Sadducees):
"The following have no share in the World to Come... and those who say there is no Torah from Heaven... and the followers of Zadok and Boethus... and the Karaites who deny the words of the Sages..."
Here, he equates Karaite rejection of the Oral Law with the Sadducees' ancient denial of it.
2. Mishneh Torah (Hilchot Mamrim 3:1–3):
Maimonides classifies the Karaites as "minim" (heretics) akin to the Sadducees:
"The Sadducees and Boethusians... denied the Torah She-be-al-Peh [Oral Torah]... And in our time, the Karaites came and denied the Torah She-be-al-Peh like them..."
He rules that Karaites are to be treated as "tinokot she-nishbu" (captive children, i.e., raised in error) rather than willful heretics, but still links them doctrinally to the Sadducees.
3. Iggeret Teiman (Epistle to Yemen):
Addressing Karaite influence in Yemen, he warns:"These Karaites are the descendants of the Sadducees who denied the Oral Law in ancient times..."
Historical Context
Both groups rejected the Oral Torah (Mishnah, Talmud, rabbinic authority) in favor of literal scripture. Maimonides saw Karaism (founded by Anan ben David in 8th-century Babylon) as a resurgence of Sadducean ideas, not a new sect.
In short: Yes, Maimonides directly and repeatedly identified Karaites as the spiritual heirs of the Sadducees due to their shared rejection of the Oral Torah.
The Sadduccees were intrinsically tied to the temple in Jerusalem.
When the temple was destroyed, the Sadduccees were destroyed utterly.
The Pharisees too were devastated but Rabbi Yohannan bin Zakkai in 70 AD created the new sect of Rabbinical Judaism that replaced temples-priests+animal sacrifices with synagogues - rabbis - todah.
The similarities between islamic law (sharia) and Jewish law (Halakha) is also partly because both arose in 9th and 10th century Baghdad.
And, NO, al-Ṣiddīq (الصديق) is unrelated to the Sadducees.
- al-Ṣiddīq (الصديق) is the Arabic word for “the Truthful” or “the Loyal Friend” – a title allegedly given to Abu Bakr (d. 634 CE) for his unwavering belief in Muhammad.
- the root of the word is ṣ-d-q (ص د ق) = truth, sincerity.
- The word Sadducees derives from Hebrew *Tsaddiqim* (צַדּוּקִים), linked to Zadok the priest; a Jewish sect (c. 2nd BCE–70 CE). Different language, era, and context.
Yes, islam started off as a Judauc-Christian heresy. It was a Unitarian sect that considered Jesus not to be Gid but a prophet.
In the Quran Moses is mentioned 127 times.
In the Quran Jesus is mentioned 36 times.
And in the Quran the word Muhammad is mentioned 4 times and each time it is used as a title.
Muhammad is a title meaning “Praiseworthy one”. It was not a personal name before the 7th century.
This is a title that was used for Jesus...
...
...
Yes. Fir the first century after the Arab conquests we find no mention of Muhammad, Mecca, the Quran, Islam. Only when the Ummayyads were overthrown by the Fatimids (Arabs who had settled in Iran and taken Zoroastrian aspects into their Ebionite Christian beliefs) do we get the idea that Muhammad was a distinct person from Isa (the Arabic Jesus).
Only then, In the late 8th century was islam created.
It’s Hadiths, sharia etc were written in Baghdad in the same place the Jewish Talmud and Jewish law Halakha were being finalized
Only from the 750s - 100 years AFTER the Arab conquests do we see islam, muhammad etc on coins and inscriptions.
Only in 750 is the Quran written down, 200 years after it was supposedly given. Only in the late 700s do we see Hadith sayings written down.
As fir the biography of this character Muhammad, the Sirah? It was written in the 800s, 200 years after its lead character supposedly died.
That’s like saying Abraham Lincoln vampire hunter is a biography
Sorry olog, but while your 2nd statement is true, your first statement is false.
1. Islam shares clear similarities with the Torah*(Pentateuch):
- Monotheism (Deut 6:4 ↔ Qur’an 112). (tawhid in Islam aligns with the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4)
- Abraham, Moses, Exodus, Sinai covenant, dietary laws, circumcision all central in Islam (Qur’an 2:124–136; 3:67; 5:44).
- Qur’an calls Jews “People of the Book” and affirms the Torah as divine revelation (Qur’an 5:44).
2. Sadducees vs. Islam on resurrection:
- Sadducees **denied** resurrection (Mark 12:18; Acts 23:8).
- Islam **affirms** bodily resurrection and final judgment (Qur’an 75:1–4; 99:1–8).
Mecca did not exist until well into the Arab era. It is not mentioned by any historical source(or indeed any source) prior to the 7th century. Medina (original name Yathrub) IS mentioned, but Mecca is not
I think the initial firm of islam namely Ebionites was a Jewush-Christian mix, being anti Trinitarian yet holding Isa in honour. It took Jewish kosher laws, circumcision etc seriously and all evidence shows that fir the furst few decades these proto muslims worshipped in the durection of Jerusalem.
Jews were also persecuted in Christian lands and welcomed and sided these Arab conquerors, considering them to be kindof Noahides.
Jews aided the Arabs in the conquests of Jerusalem, Damascus, Cyrene and even Spain, becoming governors, advisors etc.
True Islam arise in the 9th century heavily influenced by Judaism but also incorporating Zoroastrianism and Arabic paganism (jinn etc)
Edo mites were conquered in 100 BC by the Jewish king John Hyracanus and they were forcibly converted to Judaism.
One of those forced converts was the father of herod the great.
The Edomites became known as Idumeans and most moved to Judea and their original land,Edom was taken over by proto-Atabic Nabateans who founded Petra.
The Edomites assimilated into Judaism and disappeared as a separate people after the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD.
By the by the Edomites fought FOR Judaism against the Romans. By 70 AD they were already heavily assimilated
The creation of Islam definitely wasn’t Jews fault.
I put the creation as due to a number of factors:
1. The Roman Empire never managed to conquer the Hijaz, but had strong influence there due to the Roman Red sea trade with India
2. The Ethiopian Christian Aksumite empire did briefly conquer the Hijaz but didn’t hold on to it long.
3. The Zurvanite Zoroastrianism of the Sassanid Dynasty Persian Empire had a strong influence on Arabia
4. The Romans and the Persian had Arab proxies , the Lakhamids and Ghassanids who lived on the borderlands. These did the actual fighting for the Romans and Persians until these two empires got bankrupt, stopped paying them and the Arabs said “why don’t we just take over”
5. The century long Roman Persian war that exhausted both empires and ended with first the Persians conquering Jerusalem (with the help of local Jews and briefly wetting up a renewed israel) and then the Roman resurgence where they destroyed the Zoroastrian fire temples.
The Arabs just stepped into that chaos and got a ready made empire.
They couldn’t believe it and ascribed it to divine providence and created Islam
I need to add also the post Chalcedon schism inside Christianity when the Afro-Qsiatic speaking Egyptians (speaking Coptic) and Syrians (speaking Aramaic) broke away from the Greek speaking Catholic-Orthodox for what I consider proto nationalistic reasons cloaked with religious
Dr Franklin is correct.
My opinion is that the black stone of the Kaaba is actually the black stone of Elagabalus, a meteorite that ws, in the 3nd century AD worshipped in Emesa (present day Homs in Syria) as the God El Gabal, the solar deity.
This stone disappeared after Elagabalus was dethroned and I believe it was taken to the Hejaz.
A fictional book that I still think contains a lot of truth is the book “The black stone” , part of the Agent of Rome series
Islam is more influenced by Gnosticism than actual Judaism.
Tawhid has nothing to do with the Torah whatsoever; in fact, the notion of fatherhood on God’s part (which Islam denies vehemently) is straight out of the Torah, where God says “Israel is my son, even my firstborn” (Exodus 4:22).
Furthermore, the Koran merely makes mention of several Torah figures, while completely mixing up their histories and creating false narratives around them. That does not constitute similarity.
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