Posted on 10/31/2025 10:29:22 AM PDT by sopo
I do not see anythingin the passage that provides evidence that M.L. Luther created America. Amerigo Vespucci was already dead for five years, and it is named after him.
discovery of a land mass = creation of an idea of government?
Definitely true. Protestant Reformation shaped our founders more profoundly than the Enlightenment — which is what spurred the French Revolution.
Martin Luther had some skeletons though…Anti Semitism being one.
Hilarious
You think the Declaration and the Constitution are really Papal Encyclicals?
All revolutions end in failure and resultant tyranny. The reason the American Revolution did not end in failure is because it was not a revolution; it was a reformation, an attempt to make the Crown return to the republic-an method of governance.
Like the Lutheran Reformation, the result was a split and independence, where the Lutheran church became what the Catholic church could have been, and the United States became what the British government in the colonies could have been.
ready for you on that, again , Horowitz:Consider David Horwitz in “America Betrayed” “ How A Christian Monk Created America’— the dust jacket quote from Charlie Kirk ‘ David Horowitz is a modern legend”
page 17:
Re Luther’s hatred of the Jews:”I hated Luther for this screed. I hated him for his hatred. I hated him on behalf of my fellow Jews who perished in the Holocaust, and I hated him for the seeds he planted of Holocausts to come.”
If you had told me then or for half a century afterwards that I would come to see another side of this famous monk and his achievements; if you told me I would come to understand him in a way that would put me forever in awe of what he had accomplished, and cause me to appreciate how he had made life better for everyone who lived under the canopy of his ideas better-including and especially my persecuted tribe-how he made them freer, safer and more at home in the world; if you had told me in my twenties I would come to see him as one of freedom’s greatest heroes, I would have laughed and said:you are mad.
Martin Luther’s genocidal hatred of Jews is a lesson that believers are not immune from human sin—from redirecting their mission to the service of evil....
Page 21: To a man and woman, those of us who broke free from these Utopian delusions came to understand that the corrupter of the world was not socity; patriarchy; or race. It was us.
These truths are encapsulated in the most humbling and liberating Lutheran doctrine of all: Justification by Faith. This phrase encapsulates the belief that one cannot earn a place in heaven by good works because there is not a soul among us who deserves to be saved. We are selfish and self-centered; greedy and deceitful, malicious and cruel. Therefore, if we are to saved a all ,it can only be by divine grace. This was the idea that Martin Luther put front and center in his thoughts about the human condition. The idea itself was not orignal with him. It was central to being a Christian. Yet it was denied by the Roman Church’s offer of indulgences as a means to salvation. This was the devil in the detail that set Luther on his revolutionary course. An institution, like the Church, created by mere mortals , could have no authority to decide who should or should not be saved. Salvation could be achieved by faith and God’s grace alone.
To Christians, belief in a savior who died on a cross to pay for mankind’s sins was the only possible path to redemption:”For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. it is not from yourself or anything you’ve done, but the gift of God. “ Ephesians 2:8-9
"Luther may not have intended the full freedom to which his proclamation led, but he had loosed the idea upon the world, and the world responded by making it the cornerstone of Protestant belief."
Very good perspective, both radical though, high cost in lives, but return to the roots.
True. But hopefully faith produces fruit like love.
My other issue is that there was too much throwing baby out with the bathwater when it came to abandoning all things Catholicism and the marriage of the Classical World to Institutional Christianity.
Burning cathedrals and all that.
Ugly churches and the normalization of contractual Marriage and Divorce, as opposed to Sacramental understanding of these things are some of the Protestant fall out.
“America”, as opposed to the “United States of America” includes North America and South America. Or as we say, Columbus discovered America, even though he never even hit the mainland, but started out with Hispanola. England’s first great explorer of the U.S., John Cabot, was Catholic.
Lots of places in the U.S., Canada, and South America are named after Columbus. No place is named after Luther.
The earliest U.S. settlers in Florida, California, Virginia, and Massachusetts were not Lutheran, but mostly Catholic, Church of England, and Puritan (who had no use for the Lutherans).
If you want to fast forward to the United States; founding in 1776, there is but one Lutheran and one Catholic signing the Declaration. The other Founders would largely be Deists, Calvinists, and Anglican/Episcopalian. Calvin spent much of his efforts attacking Luther.
Now, if you want to simply go with the Lutheran idea of the source of church/state authority, it would be a very small piece of the puzzle. In practicality, after the Treaty of Augsberg, Lutharan sovereigns had problem imposing Lutheranism on their subjects.
Luther certainly wasn’t the only one to rebel against the Catholic Church, but I would maintain that the idea of America owes much more to the pagan Greeks and Romans, British Magna Carta, and the Catholic British Common Law than Luther’s ideas as such.
America as an idea has many contributing elements, just as she has many Founding Fathers, and many different peoples. Indeed, the idea of America shifted radically from the antebellum era, and again during the New Deal, and arguably again in the modern era.
Right man at the right time.
What a stupid question Luther asks......”Why does not the pope, whose wealth is greater than Croesus, build St. Peter’s with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers ?”
It’s b/c, Martin know-nothing......even the poorest among us can point to the
exquisite holy place, gratified that even their mere pittances helped build it.
The main concern of Martin Luther, or one of the main concerns, was the selling of indulgences by the Church.
Actually, on of the several theses that the ignorant Luther posted that was a question the laity asked him. Like this one :Such as: ``Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church?’’ The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.
GOD derectly inspired the creation of the USA. USA history begins on July.4t,1776.
You can rationalize it any way ya want.
Fact is, there were only two Catholics in the gang and none of the other guys were trying to create the North American version of the Holy Roman Empire.
If you think my ancestors - Baptist Dunkards, English Anglicans, Scots-Irish Presbyterians, English Methodists were fighting for a Restoration of Papal Supremacy, you’re nuts. Wishful thinking which is only now utterable since the Catholic Invasion has been turbocharged by Mexico.
The Revolution was about restoring the Rights of Englishmen which George III had abrogated with his corrupt treatment of pretty much everyone. The Regulator Movement was one of the first if not THE first group to act against him for these reasons.
And the US Constitution is not supposed to be a recitation of the Common Law, which is based on the Feud. It is a rejection of Feudalism, which Catholicism had no problem with.
So no. Revisionist explanations by Hispano Catholics to characterize a Protestant revolution based on both the Reformation AND the Enlightenment (e pur si muove) as being some sort of move back toward Papal Authority and the Divine Right of Kings is nonsense.
But hey, if you can aid and abet a Catolico Invasion by the Orcs of the South, maybe you can babbletalk it into being the accepted reality. Do I have to buy the crap that some jerk from Illinois has a direct line to the Creator of the Universe? I didn’t know that Villanova was such a Divine Place. I guess if you wear the right gang threads you can run a game like that.
After reading that riseable history, did you expect anything more? The council of worms showed the biblical basis for every single one of the doctrines that Martin Luther opposed, and that the Catholic Church accepted, ( nobody thought that selling indulgences was a valid thing ) so Luther just removed from his Bible books like Revelation’s and wanted to Peter and James and one and two Maccabees and Hebrews.
Cancelling Luther's reforms over that one thing is like today's Dims saying nothing good came from America's founders because they didn't get rid of slavery until a few years later.
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