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To: MtnClimber

Europe wants to drag the USA into this war.


2 posted on 08/17/2025 4:43:59 AM PDT by MtnClimber (For photos of scenery, wildlife and climbing, click on my screen name for my FR home page.)
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To: MtnClimber; GOPJ; gleeaikin
from the article: "Support for the war has dropped substantially in Ukraine: 'More than three years into the war, Ukrainians’ support for continuing to fight until victory has hit a new low.
In Gallup’s most recent poll of Ukraine -- conducted in early July -- 69% say they favor a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible, compared with 24% who support continuing to fight until victory.' "

No, Biden's slogan in 2022 was, "for as long as it takes", which was not a strategy for victory, only for avoiding or prolonging defeat.
Since Ukraine's failed offensives of 2023 and the Kursk incursions of 2024, Ukraine has demonstrated no serious offensive capabilities, meaning the war is strictly Russia's choice on when to stop fighting.

What "peace deal" terms are Ukrainians willing to accept today?
Nobody knows, but one thing they will certainly require are security guarantees from Europeans.
Without them, Ukraine cannot exist as an independent country, and nobody has yet produced a poll saying Ukrainians are willing to commit national suicide.

from the article: "This marks a nearly complete reversal from public opinion in 2022, when 73% favored Ukraine fighting until victory and 22% preferred that Ukraine seek a negotiated end as soon as possible.
Yet, Zelensky continues doing whatever he can to sabotage the Trump-Putin meeting in Alaska and to behave as if Ukraine's army still has some hope of winning a war they are clearly losing."

The last jab is complete BS, signaling only that the author is drinking Russian propaganda Koolaid.

MtClimber: "Europe wants to drag the USA into this war."

What are you babbling about?
The US is already in the war, according to Pres. Trump, to to the tune of some $350 billion in aid, plus a long list of economic sanctions against Russia.
By that measure, Europe still lags behind with only circa $150 billion in aid to Ukraine and still buying Russian energy.

So, the real issue now is, who will provide troops to enforce the cease-fire and guarantee Ukraine's sovereignty?
The answer is: not the USA.
And, if it's also: not the Europeans, then Ukraine has indeed lost the war, and will be annexed by Russia, it's people killed, enslaved or driven out of Ukraine.

But, much as our Russian propagandists might love to see that, I don't think that's where we're headed.


7 posted on 08/17/2025 5:11:17 AM PDT by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: MtnClimber

We caused this mess .
The Clinton forced Ukraine to give up its Nuclear weapons for a promise to defend them for ever from that vile Russia.
If Ukraine had it Nucs that Monster KGB dictator -butcher Putin would not be Invading and killing the innocent residents for a second time .
Learn a little history .


8 posted on 08/17/2025 5:13:34 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Gop DC Globalists are the evil)
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To: MtnClimber

100% Don’t forget though, there are $Billions$ of reasons why the permanent war must go on.


20 posted on 08/17/2025 10:01:45 AM PDT by Glad2bnuts
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