Israel-US relations: A two-way street

american thinker ^ | August 5, 2025 | By Joseph Puder

[daniel1212]

► had a historical right to the land that predates the current claimants to it by more than 1,000 years;

Not true: Second Temple Israel lost its mandate. Now the Church possesses it

So you think your church has the right to the land, if not the Jews or the "Palestinians?" That was the context.

[ebb tide]

It has nothing to do with “land”; it never did.

The Jews and you are making it about “land”.

[DoodleBob]

In the real world, welfare is aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.

Prescinding from debating “need,” Israel is getting welfare. As is every other nation to which the Treasury is giving money. At least the poor in this nation are Americans.

Now, we can be liberals and change the words when our feelings are hurt. Or, we can wordsmith like the libs if we feel the recipient is feeble and needs their masterful help to avoid being hurt.

Or we can call a duck a duck and be adults. Welfare. Including the money we wire to Ukraine, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Jordan, Somalia, Yemen, and Iran (when Obama shipped them $100bn of banknotes), and yes Israel.

As for neutrality, why do you select 1939? We were attacked in 1941.

Let’s be clear. Israel was attacked by Hamas. Her citizens were murdered and taken hostage. Israel has every right to defend herself against these terrorists with volcanic force. I hope they destroy Hamas.

Now, if you’re arguing that Israel is “special” and needs help…well…ok. If Israel is that special to many people, they can fly to Israel and pick up a gun. Or send their own money.

That’s not the job of the USA.

[daniel1212]

In the real world, welfare is aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need.

Which fact is not the issue, but whether, as said, it is that of continually giving money to class of nations that squander it and serve no strategic purpose is not the same as providing aid to countries that are very effectively deterring a common enemy.

As for neutrality, why do you select 1939? We were attacked in 1941.

Yes, and so you do not see militant Islam as having attacked the US, and still seeking its destruction, and warranting support of an ally that very effectively deters it. If Israel is that special to many people, they can fly to Israel and pick up a gun. Or send their own money. That’s not the job of the USA.

Which means living in a delusional world in which the US need not be involved in forming and supporting strategic allies, and thus should let China control the S. China sea and all countries it bullies, or actually invaded, as well as Iran and the strait of Hormuz, for just two examples in an imagined isolationist world, unless you imagine the US can prevent such without providing aid to strategic, effective allies.

, Be specific, and tell us what you think would happen in an imagined isolationist world apart from providing aid to certain strategic allies, if such are effective in deterring common foes?

[DoodleBob]

Thanks for your reply.

Welfare’s definition isn’t conditional on whether or not the recipient squanders the money, if there is a strategic purpose, or deterrence effect. Further, “foreign aid” is defined by the govt without the qualifiers you proposed: “any tangible or intangible item provided by the United States Government [including "by means of gift, loan, sale, credit, or guaranty"] to a foreign country or international organization under this or any other Act, including but not limited to any training, service, or technical advice, any item of real, personal, or mixed property, any agricultural commodity, United States dollars, and any currencies of any foreign country which are owned by the United States Government.... (§634(b))”

Ergo, foreign aid is synonym for welfare.

Onto radical Islamic terrorism (henceforth RIT) and strategic alliances. This nation has ALWAYS sought allies. We probably wouldn’t have broken free of England without the French. Of course, prudential international policy should be pursued with an eye toward enhancing the life, liberty, and property of America.

In fighting RIT, the US has many allies. For now, we will focus on military installations (sidestepping the debate about the wisdom of such setups):

The US military presence in the heart of RIT seems pretty big.

Interestingly, through 2017, the United States didn’t maintain permanent, large-scale military bases in Israel. We share facilities and provide support, but that’s it. In 2017, we announced our first base, though it’s located inside the Israeli Air Force’s Mashabim Air Base. It’s like a mini-base. I guess that’s a start, though given the map above it’s a drop in the bucket especially for such a strong ally.

RIT is a real threat to the life, liberty, and property of Americans. I was in NYC on 9/11. It’s a thing.

At the same time, American life, liberty and property is threatened by: Antifa, hostile leftists, warmongering neocons, Russian leaders, PRC, college professors, medical pushers, “trust the science” zealots, global warming nuts, globalists, and fans of Springsteen.

RIT needs to take a number. And that number is about 17. I’d rather take the billions of “foreign aid” and return it to the Treasury…or, if we are taking about federal dollars being dispensed locally, give it to domestic law enforcement before shipping it offshore.

Thus, while I’m fine talking to Israel, sharing intelligence with them, and them buying ordnance from US manufacturers on their dime, it ends there. She’s an ally. Not a bride.

Before I finish, I totally get the Holy Land is in Israel. Jesus lived there, died there, and rose there. It’s special.

Christians have every right to send their own money there, travel there, and speak from the rooftops. That way, Dispensationalism remains free from foreign policy, and visa versa.

Have a blessed day.

[DoodleBob]

I never considered the Beta Testing dimension of military welfare to Israel et al. Very interesting.

A cleaner way would be for the foreign govt to pay US manufacturers from their treasury for Beta Testing.

In turn, we stop wiring free money abroad.

[daniel1212]

Welfare’s definition isn’t conditional on whether or not the recipient squanders the money, if there is a strategic purpose, or deterrence effect.

I was countering the use of the term in the pejorative sense.

In fighting RIT

Radical Islamic Terrorism?

RIT is a real threat to the life, liberty, and property of Americans. I was in NYC on 9/11. It’s a thing. At the same time, American life, liberty and property is threatened by: Antifa, hostile leftists, warmongering neocons, Russian leaders, PRC, college professors, medical pushers, “trust the science” zealots, global warming nuts, globalists, and fans of Springsteen.

The difference is btwn internal threats and deterring external domination. You do not focus in dealing with cockroaches and mice in a neighborhood while an external power threatens to nuke the whole of it. You could ignore China buying up farm land here and controlling shipping lanes while you focus on internal servants of the same, but forming reliable alliances serves to deter such.

RIT needs to take a number. And that number is about 17. I’d rather take the billions of “foreign aid” and return it to the Treasury…or, if we are taking about federal dollars being dispensed locally, give it to domestic law enforcement before shipping it offshore. Thus, while I’m fine talking to Israel, sharing intelligence with them, and them buying ordnance from US manufacturers on their dime, it ends there. She’s an ally. Not a bride.

Doing so, if it was done in the past it would have meant Israel losing the Yom Kipour war, for one, and in the future would mean Iran being another nuclear threat to the US. Likewise, doing do for S. Korea would mean massive deaths, and losing Taiwan (etc.) to Chi-oms. And soon it would likely mean the Left using to the funds to enhance is Woke state, and suppress all opposition.

Related to that, and for comparison in speaking of money being spent, Federal funding for HIV (mainly for medical care) has increased significantly over the course of the epidemic [which is virtually fully preventable], rising from just a few hundred thousand dollars in FY 1982 to about $43.0 billion in FY 2022 for combined domestic and global efforts. Federal Funding for HIV/AIDS in FY 2018 was $35.12, (US$ Billions)and FY 2019: $36.18, and FY 2020: $38.41, FY 2020: $40.15, FY 2021: $42.86. And with Federal for just Domestic HIV/AIDS Programs & Research rising to more than $28 billion per year (2024).

That is more than the aid given to Israel even since the start of Israel's war with Hamas on October 7, 2023, and is far more over the course of 40 years than the $53B provided to Israel from 1950 to 2022 (not adjusted for inflation), yet which is far less than aid to Saudi Arabia during that period at $164B.

Before I finish, I totally get the Holy Land is in Israel. Jesus lived there, died there, and rose there. It’s special. Christians have every right to send their own money there, travel there, and speak from the rooftops. That way, Dispensationalism remains free from foreign policy, and visa versa.

No foreign policy is free from beliefs, and which can be related to reluctance by many to recognize the modern state of Israel. Have a blessed day.

Your courtesy is appreciated, and as it takes me a long time to type replies then I hope this will suffice as an argument.