Posted on 07/01/2025 9:29:34 AM PDT by Pol-92064
Friday is #July4th, when we celebrate America’s independence and the documents that made America different, like the Constitution.
But is our Constitution good enough today?
Disagree with that. You'll just bribe Blagojevich then you'll get a Senator you'll want to replace Obama.
The purpose of direct election of Senators is to reduce corruption.
Refer to my reply #41.
That is not to degrade the Constitution, which is the best foundational document any nation has ever had. Unlike the warning in the Book of Revelation not to add or subtract anything to the writings, the fact that the Constitution provided for an amending process reflected the consensus among the Framers that circumstances may require changes. Some of them were good, as with the abolition of slavery and improvement of the process of electing Presidents; other not so good, such as the establishment of the income tax, direct popular votes for Senators, and Prohibition, the last of which was repealed.
Perhaps no one can serve in any level of government while having dual citizenship.
Completely wrong!
Before the 17th there was less Senate corruption then after it and certainly not as much as now. (It wasn’t zero but I think I can show it was less!) The need to raise multimillion dollar reelection portfolios introduces far more corruption then influencing a few legislators. You also don’t likely need Senate term limits. Every legislator and state Grand PooH-Bah will see himself/herself in that seat. There will be plenty of competition for it! It will make the governor & the legislature the centers of power in the state. It will be harder to get out-of-state assholes like RFK Sr, Hellary Clinton and others to come into a state where they have no history and to park themselves in that seat for their personal political ambitions. A senator will go back to being the representative of the state AS A INSTITUTION AS THE FOUNDING FATRHERS INTENDED! The senator will not just be another political hack!
Also it will have the happy effect of reducing the partisanship in the Senate. (It will not eliminate it!) A Senator will not just be a “at-large-congresscriter” who serves 6 years like they are now! The whole dynamic of the politics of the Senate and its relations to the House and the executive will change. I think to the better!
Yes, there was significant corruption and dysfunction associated with how U.S. Senators were chosen by state legislatures before the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913.
Background:
Originally, the U.S. Constitution (Article I, Section 3) gave state legislatures the power to elect U.S. Senators, as a way to preserve state influence in the federal government. This system was meant to balance power between the people (who elected House members) and the states.
Problems That Arose:
By the late 1800s and early 1900s, several serious issues had emerged:
1. Corruption & Bribery:
Wealthy individuals and corporations often bribed state legislators to elect certain candidates to the Senate.
Political machines and party bosses exerted major influence.
Example: In 1899, William A. Clark of Montana (a copper magnate) openly bribed legislators to gain a Senate seat. The U.S. Senate refused to seat him after an investigation.
2. Deadlocks in State Legislatures:
Sometimes, state legislatures couldn’t agree on a Senator, leading to long vacancies.
Example: Delaware went without a U.S. Senator for four years (1899–1903) due to repeated deadlocks.
3. Loss of Public Confidence:
The public increasingly saw the system as corrupt and undemocratic.
Progressive Era reformers pushed for direct election as part of broader anti-corruption efforts.
The 17th Amendment:
In response, the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913, mandating direct election of U.S. Senators by voters in each state.
In summary: Yes, the original system of state legislatures choosing Senators was plagued by corruption, bribery, and gridlock. These issues played a major role in the adoption of the 17th Amendment.
From AI
No system is perfect! Corruption is far far worse now!
You’re fooling yourself if you think it isn’t.
Compared to the necessity of maintaining the Federal system the Founding Fathers set up corruption is a minor minor problem! Moving us away from being a republic has introduced far far more evils then a few corrupt senators can conjure up.
Basically, America is now a "democracy" because everyone can vote. Our Founding Fathers did not want that.
America was closer to a Republic before the 19th Amendment.
That's not exactly an argument against the old system, given who Delaware has elected since then. 6 times!
Denying women the vote makes us closer to a republic?
Sorry don’t see it!
In case you’re confused about the 19th Amendment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
It's not politically correct to say so. But yep.
Since we've granted universal suffrage, we've voted to expand the size of government in our lives.
I think we’re done talking about this!
YOU ARE CORRECT.
Let’s try actually following it for a while before we talk about changing it.
L
No.
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