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To: tlozo
You're right.

However, that came (((AFTER))) we started the game: https://2009-2017.state.gov/t/avc/trty/101888.htm

https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2021/12/the-us-exit-from-the-anti-ballistic-missile-treaty-has-fueled-a-new-arms-race?lang=en

They are reacting to us, not us to them. We are the ones calling the shots, just like it was our decision to offer NATO to Ukraine: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/ (this caused a war, and it was OUR decision)

Likewise, it was (((us))) that was cheating on the Conventional Forces Europe Treaty, which we also deny. How did we do this? As new member states entered NATO, their manpower and equipment was not included in the total roll up of forces and then when Russia follows suit by stationing troops Westward we have the audacity to accuse THEM of cheating. Cause and effect, with us leading the way. We found some legalistic loop-hope regards the CFE and pretended that our lie wasn't a lie.

We did the exact same thing with NATO East expansion (there are many different people that on numerous occasions publicly promised Russia that we would NOT do this: German Chancellor Kohl, US Secretary of State Baker, the head of NATO Woerner at the time...).

Our argument is basically that their is no signed treaty or agreement outside of German unification - so what was promised doesn't count. It's like making a deal and having a hand-shake, and then coming back and claiming that this deal is binding because there is no signature on a contract.

A video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVt-WXTLIZM (Realize, DW is not pro-Russian, that's the German version of VOA or NPR and they are very FAVORABLE to NATO).

Contrary to what that other guy wrote, even the head of NATO at the time Woerner stated that NATO would not expand eastward and that is on the record.

https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/documents-show-gorbachev-was-assured-us-wouldnt-ex

https://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_91676.shtml

There are numerous examples of meetings and public speeches where senior officials state that “Not one inch to the East” James Baker, our secretary of State at the time.

From the French state media, also a NATO member and highly critical of Russia (but a fact is a fact): https://www.france24.com/en/russia/20220130-did-nato-betray-russia-by-expanding-to-the-east

Again, We found some legalistic loop-hope and pretended that our lie wasn't a lie - even though Baker, Kohl, Woerner... publicly did say we won't do this.

We're the big guy today and we can make or break the rules, we act with impunity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z8SpgmF0sA

But do not pretend like this is some huge moral issue where we are on the right side of things. We're just the big kid on the playground and do what we want, and then create the arguments to support our cause after the fact.

50 posted on 06/24/2025 9:32:02 AM PDT by Red6
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To: Red6
Our argument is basically that their is no signed treaty or agreement outside of German unification - so what was promised doesn't count. It's like making a deal and having a hand-shake

Its common sense. Treaties state what is promised, NOT something said in negotiations.

If you buy a house you cannot argue you were promised something in negotiations, which is not in the contract.

54 posted on 06/24/2025 10:39:58 AM PDT by tlozo
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To: Red6
Again, We found some legalistic loop-hope and pretended that our lie wasn't a lie

Its not a lie, IT WAS SAID IN NEGOTIATIONS, not written in a treaty. Russians didn't ask for it to be included in any treaty.

Not sure why you cannot understand the difference.

55 posted on 06/24/2025 10:45:15 AM PDT by tlozo
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