Posted on 06/21/2025 10:01:58 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
President Trump and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan quietly sought to arrange a meeting between senior U.S. and Iranian officials in Istanbul this week amid Israel's escalating war with Iran.
But the effort collapsed when Iran's supreme leader — in hiding due to fears of assassination — couldn't be reached to approve it, according to three U.S. officials and a source with direct knowledge of the matter.
-snip-
Behind the scenes: Trump received a phone call from Erdoğan on Monday while meeting with G7 leaders in Canada.
Erdoğan proposed hosting a meeting in Istanbul the next day between U.S. and Iranian officials to explore a diplomatic solution to the war, three U.S. officials and a source with direct knowledge told Axios.
Trump agreed and told Erdoğan he was willing to send Vice President Vance and White House envoy Steve Witkoff — and even travel to Turkey himself to meet with Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian — if that's what was necessary to get a deal, the sources said.
A White House official said that in the hours before the call from Erdoğan, Trump received "signals" from the Iranians through other backchannels that they wanted to meet.
While Trump's personal involvement was discussed, the official said, the more serious plan was to send Vance and Witkoff.
Erdoğan and Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan then relayed the proposal to Pezeshkian and Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Aragchi, the sources said.
Two U.S. officials said Pezeshkian and Araghchi tried contacting Iran's Supreme Leader Ayotallah Ali Khamenei to get his approval. But Khamenei, who has been in hiding for fear of being assassinated by Israel, couldn't be reached.
(Excerpt) Read more at axios.com ...
Iran declared war on the US in 1979 and has never waivered. They have killed hundreds of Americans directly and indirectly and caused great damage and suffering. It’s time for them to pay the bills they have incurred.
Sounds like a leak of super secrets.
Say anything to get a pause in the bombing/shooting. Then start rearming like crazy. Wash. Repeat. Never, ever allow them to finish the job once it has started.
Okay, numbers.
7 miles/sec is escape velocity. Known to everyone who ever worked with satellites. That’s 25,000 mph.
ICBMs are not circular trajectory. There is a distinct ellipse that achieves non uniform velocity (because it is not circular). Orbital velocity, circular, is a tad under 5 miles/second and you’ll be a very small amount under that to remain sub-orbital.
You have plasma if you have molecules, so going too very high in the ellipse is counter productive. You don’t want huge apogees. Besides which, you are slowed down at apogee.
X band also suffers 1/R^4 more severely than L Band. It is more precise but shorter range. What plasma does is it multiplies an attenuation coefficient to the 1/R^4 equation and attenuates more than free space or even air. And it’s bidirectional. The incoming signal is reduced passing thru plasma, and then when the signal reaches the object and bounces, it gets attenuated further emerging. Down to noise levels.
So it is a matter of trade offs. If you are elliptical, your descent will be more nearly vertical, but all you have for velocity is the fall, since climb to apogee eroded the propulsion sourced velocity. If you are more circular low, then you get plasma stealth until your speed bleeds down below plasma formation levels — but you won’t be near vertical terminal.
Good rule of thumb, 10 seconds from detect (the point where velocity slowed via atmospheric drag below plasma formation) to impact. About right for 70ish miles altitude? Maybe a tad lower.
This is a physics problem. Not engineering.
You can see all of it in the videos of missiles hitting Tel Aviv. Why are they points of light? Propulsion ended minutes ago. Answer: Heat from the atmospheric drag
I think the more unreasonable Iran acts the more rope Trump gets from the base. We won’t discuss it, we will do what we want and just fight the war strikes me as quite unreasonable and serves as pretty clear evidence why you should keep certain weapons out of their hands at all cost. Imagine they had a nuke, they don’t strike me as reasonable decision makers. Also, they keep threatening to attack the US but they don’t even seem to be able to handle Israel or they would do something dramatic to them.
very very hopefully ASAP SOON this bloodthirsty Iranian Agent of Satan won’t be reachable by anybody on earth
The incoming signal is reduced passing thru plasma, and then when the signal reaches the object and bounces, it gets attenuated further emerging. Down to noise levels.
I guess that’s why the radars use a pulse train with a phase coherent signal. When you integrate over X number of pulses, your signal exceeds the noise.
Frankly, you are throwing a lot off chaff (extraneous factoids) into the discussion that is not necessary. It sounds like you are saying that both ICBMs (or more specifically RVs) are too fast to track, especially with a lofted trajectory. Or maybe you are only saying hypersonic, but both are in the same speed class.
I will admit that hypersonic missiles only became a thing after I retired. However, ballistic missiles are definitely tracked by radar in both the midcourse and terminal phases. If you couldn’t use radar for the terminal phase, then platforms like THAAD and Aegis would not be used for missile defense. And they certainly are. You can also have a network of radars, where one radar cues another.
If you want to discuss this more, just DM me.
You can certainly track objects in orbit, because they are above the air. You get plasma from the air molecules ionizing.
All ICBM trajectories are not equal. The semi major axis of the ellipse varies by design. Hypersonics is a word with no meaning unless there is a mach number and that requires air.
The big advance is achieving these speeds in air, where you get plasma formation. Tracking ICBMs midcourse is possible if and when they are high enough. Simply that.
The new Russian hypersonics are achieving it in air, and I think their latest are sufficient range to be intercontinental. They won’t be tracked if they are achieving that speed in air (which they must be to have that label)
Quite possible. He wouldn’t even have to have been assassinated. He’s old and has been under an incredible amount of stress lately.
Yup! and we just got our answer.
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