Posted on 03/17/2025 5:43:13 AM PDT by marcusmaximus
Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Alexander Grushko reportedly said that the Kremlin wants an "ironclad" guarantee that Ukraine will be prohibited from joining the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), as the Trump administration works to broker a deal to end the fighting.
"We will demand that ironclad security guarantees become part of this agreement," Grushko was quoted by the Russian newspaper Izvestia as saying, according to Reuters. "Part of these guarantees should be the neutral status of Ukraine, the refusal of NATO countries to accept it into the alliance."
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
Good point! I wonder if there’s still a Russian task group in Cuba right now? There’s a nuclear missile sub tied up down there, or there was.
You would immediately get a NATO Part Deux. All-Euro.
From a Euro POV it makes too much sense.
Can’t be sustained in Cuba given ongoing economic collapse there.
Preach it!
NATO is a mess, and the direction the UK, France and Germany are going we may end up having to deal with them as marxist countries within the next year.
Reasonable.
Just like Russia has a good reason to not like NATO being next door in Ukraine, Ukraine and Europe have good reason to not want Russia controlling Ukraine.
“NATO is a mess, and the direction the UK, France and Germany are going we may end up having to deal with them as marxist countries within the next year.”
They seem to be a mix of Fascism and Communism at this point. But it will be temporary, as their ‘migrants’ are close to critical mass now and will soon take over, either at the ballot box or at the point of gun...but one way or another - they’ve sealed their fate at this point.
“And we didn’t want nuclear missiles in Cuba. Theirs is a completely understandable position.”
Also, let’s consider the fact that Russia already has an 830-mile border with a NATO country, Finland.
Perfect opening position: offer the US to leave NATO if Ukraine is allowed in. Promise never to go back.
You are correct, the world is rearranging itself into “great powers”, and as the US has demonstrated fundamental divergence of interests, then the Euros are going to be another, independent center of power. It may take some time for this to become apparent.
But “marxist countries”? That’s insane, especially coming from a country that includes California. Go fight a civil war first, why don’t you.
I'd give them that guarantee, and it would only become null and void if Russia were to invade.
“Russia already has an 830-mile border with a NATO country, Finland.”
Tricky that. Maybe Russia should consider whether it wants to get into a serious argument in that direction. Time is not on Russia’s side, given the sheer scale of the financing being thrown into the Euro buildup.
Since Russia is the winner of the war it gets to dictate the terms.
A while back...I heard "Z" say...we'll stop the war...then I can join NATO...then provoke a skirmish with Russia...and then the NATO countries will have to join the fight...and I'll get all the land back.
There is no USSR. That was 35 years ago. Russia has won the war and will dictate the terms.
As a member of NATO, I can see Ukraine provoking Russia...(with Ukrainians living in Russia) and forcing NATO to defend Ukraine.
Eventually, in every organization, whether it’s the car club or the HOA, somebody gets in charge, and they use it for whatever their hobbyhorse is. But the overall NATO purpose, still working, is to protect countries from being bullied by Russia. Nobody in NATO is going to get out because Clinton or Biden did this or that which wasn’t something they wanted part off. Because RUSSIA!
Absolutely...To the winner goes the spoils...since the beginning of time.
Do not in NATO, but if Ukraine and Russia ever start fighting again, we attack Russia with extreme prejudice? That’s the same thing except for not standardizing Rifle cartridges.
And two problems. Ukraine started this war with the attacks on the Donbass. A defense pact would be a direct invitation for Ukraine to start new hostilities or launch a terror bombing and assassination campaign.
Two… attacking Russia with extreme prejudice is a good way to get nuked. America doesn’t need to have our rich history wiped out on behalf of Stepan Bandera and Svoboda. They just don’t matter that much to anyone except the Uke descendants and DC
I can see that as well.
I personally don’t think Ukraine has to join NATO.
The problem is, I think Russia thinks they are owed eastern Europe. Not just because they owned it during the cold war, but because of the extents of the Russian Empire before WW1.
Many wars were started by aggressors who claimed to be the victim and used being attacked as a pretense, such as Hitler claiming that Poland invaded/crossed Germany’s border in 1939.
If they want to have an ‘ironclad’ agreement, it has to be ironclad about zero tolerance for hostilities, no matter what the pretext.
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