The solid-state batteries hype is fading – prompting auto giants to consider alternatives

CNBC ^ | October 16, 2024 | Sam Meredith

[GenXPolymath]

You likely sent that post from a smartphone that only exists because lithium ion batteries have the energy density to allow their existence. Your phone has a credit card sized cell that holds 10 watt hours no other battery technology can do that , certainly not any of the legacy nickel cadmium, or nickel metal hydride. Your laptop and tablet as well simply couldn’t exist without lithium ion tech. So that battery plant will also make cells that power every other electric device that makes the modern world possible. Medical devices, lawn equipment, power tools the list is endless I could name two dozen uses for 18650 cells a Tesla pack is just one of those uses. My high end Greenworks 80V tools also use 18650s those tools beat my gas ones on every way including torque on the chainsaws the 18” one just shredded a oak tree better than the 49cc that sits now on the shelf. So they would point back and laugh all the way to the bank selling cells to who ever needs them for what makes modern life possible.

[rlmorel]

Regardless of the EV hoaxes, we should be pursuing this, and should have been for the past 30 years as technology improved:

From the Kairos Power Website who is actively trying to develop these for commercial use:
"...The Kairos Power FHR (KP-FHR) is a novel advanced reactor technology that leverages TRISO fuel in pebble form combined with a low-pressure fluoride salt coolant. The technology uses an efficient and flexible steam cycle to convert heat from fission into electricity and to complement renewable energy sources..."

I believe this is fully the way to go, but I need more specifics.

This graphic is from their website:

First, it appears to be a "pebble bed" design which is inherently far, far safer. In this configuration, in their words: "...AUTOMATIC SAFE SHUTDOWN; PASSIVE COOLING UPON LOSS OF POWER..."

Secondly, it is using a low-pressure "fluoride salt coolant" which I don't fully know what that entails. The USA made reactors cooled with liquid Sodium, and because it can explode when exposed to water, it resulted in explosions during maintenance processes that became so frequent that they stopped calling the fire department when it happened in an earlier experimental plant if my memory serves me correctly. We built a submarine, the second nuclear submarine built at the time the USS Nautilus was (USS Seawolf) but it was difficult to maintain, and Admiral Rickover was fundamentally opposed to them.

Using these types of reactors as "breeder reactors" running on Thorium could produce more fuel than they consumed, but the technology could not be wrangled into practical use back then, and sadly, we gave up on it. Salt Cooled reactors were difficult to figure out, and we went with Boiling Water and Pressurized Water Reactors.

In this type of reactor being designed by Kairos, the fuel is contained in spheres called "pebbles" which can be monitored and replaced in a fully automated and safe way when their heat level drops due to lower isotopic action.

The isotopes are encased in indestructible spheres, so the danger of contamination is nearly zero, they will never achieve criticality (fission) in the way a conventional nuclear plant could. They produce heat, but an uncontrolled release is not likely, even if the small plant is hit by a bomb. The "pebbles" could be send out for recycling.

I am all in on this. This is the way we should be going. Smaller units that can power a town or city by municipal power. We should have been pursuing this decades ago.

I will be honest, my knowledge is a bit dated and I am going off memory here, so I hope others who understand this more clearly will chime in.

[GenXPolymath]

The future of range extenders is not going to be VC engines no need for VC when you optimise for a single operating point based on maximum BSFC. You could do all the variable effective compression you needed with electronic intake valve control like Fiat multiair tech. Using early or late intake valve closing you get a huge range of effective variable compression plus throttleless operation like a diesel that alone ups eff by 15% relative to a stock ICE. Set the physical compression at 18:1 use VVT to hold effective to 16:1 down to 12:1 for regular petrol if you must. With E85 you can use 16:1 comp expand to 18:1 and you get 45+% chemical energy to motion at the crank. Same for methanol or diesel including biodiesel.

The future is electric drive units modern silicon carbide rectifier/inverters plus rare earth metals free induction motors are now cheaper than the mechanical gears of a automatic transmission and it’s ten plus gear ranges. Toyota moved it’s flag ship Camry to EDUs that says everything you need to know.

Why? Because with EDUs they don’t care where the HVDC comes from all the drive units wants is 400/800V DC that can come from a tiny generator attached to a super efficient ICE, or a gasturbine spinning a coke can sized generator or a fuel cell solid oxide at that using ethanol,methanol,natural gas,hydrogen at 65% chemical to electrons. The drive units don’t care once you have electric motors driving the wheels you can power them with anything that makes electrons just like a diesel locomotive. I really don’t see why boomers especially can’t comprehend the magnitude of advancement electric motors and rectifiers have come. Ten or more horsepower per lb is now common with no need for rare earth’s in the induction flavors. There is a company in Round Rock Texas that has motors nearing 20hp/lb gas turbines don’t even do that. Yes you need a election source but once you have electrons turning them to motion is now heavily in favor of second law machines.

[PAR35]

semi-solid-state batteries, which use a hybrid design of solid electrolyte and liquid electrolyte.

Not exactly mixed electrolytes, but close - why not try solid lead plates in a liquid acid. That would be a hybrid design of solid and liquid.

[DAC21]

No doubt the left will have a reckoning and come to accept new technology Nuclear. I’m not saying that as a good or bad thing, just a matter of fact as the likes of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are investing in it and have jointly purchased land in Wyoming to Jumpstart their ambition. Politicians will bend the knee for their Daddys.

[ducttape45]

I actually sent that post from PC. I don’t post to anything via my phone. It’s for calls and texts, nothing else.

[GenXPolymath]

Solid lead plus liquid acid = two century old technology and hideously heavy for energy stored.

“Lead-acid batteries have a lower energy density (30-50 Wh/kg) and specific energy (20-50 Wh/L) compared to lithium-ion batteries (150-200 Wh/kg and 250-670 Wh/L, respectively).”

Simply modern life and out modern technology of handheld anything would not exist without lithium ion tech period.

Solid state is next regardless of EVs they have higher density, faster charging and cannot burn. There is a trillion dollar market for devices of all types even if you never have EVs those cells are coming and will make the world better for it. Welcome to the 21st century it’s gonna be a good one. Leave the 20th behind this century is gonna rock.

[GenXPolymath]

Literally OK boomer. Ha thanks for being the stereotype. I needed some lols today
. Does that dinosaur run Windows 2000.

[TexasGator]

“Not exactly mixed electrolytes, but close - why not try solid lead plates in a liquid acid. That would be a hybrid design of solid and liquid.”

Cathode plates are not solid lead

Car battery would be 5x larger and heavier than li-ion battery

Lifetime would be significantly shorter

Discharge profile not suitable for vehicles

[TexasGator]

“they will never achieve criticality (fission) in the way a conventional nuclear plant could.”

If you don’t achieve criticality there is no self-sustaining reaction and no power generation.

[ducttape45]

If all you can is insult, buzz off.

[jonrick46]

"It will be charged by lightening bolts. That’s about the equivalent to the current required."

At that energy level, It will affect the energy grid; causing unstable AC frequencies. From Google:

"The AC frequency of an electric grid is primarily affected by the balance between power generation and demand, meaning that when generation exceeds demand, the frequency rises, and vice versa; this balance is influenced by factors like the speed of rotating generators, system inertia, load fluctuations, and the response time of control systems to adjust generation based on demand changes.

When the AC frequency on the electric grid changes, it can significantly affect electronic circuits by altering the behavior of reactive components like capacitors and inductors, potentially leading to issues like changes in current flow, motor speed variations, flickering lights, and in extreme cases, damage to sensitive electronics or system instability if the frequency deviation is large enough."

[rlmorel]

I misspoke on that, I was trying madly to type it and get it out the other day. You are correct. Can’t have nuclear power without criticality. I was driving at a different point.