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UFOs: Demonic Deception or Spiritual Revolution? A Christian Professor's Perspective (Video with transcript and transcript summary)
youtube.com ^ | Chrissy Newton

Posted on 09/24/2024 7:25:53 AM PDT by RoosterRedux

Here's a summary of the transcript:

The video discusses the intersection of faith, theology, and the unexplained phenomena of UFOs, featuring Dr. Matthew Halstead from Eternity Bible College. The conversation explores concerns that UFOs might be demonic, how to discern the truth amidst speculation, and the implications for religious beliefs.

Key points include:

Cultural Curiosity and Theological Engagement: Dr. Halstead explains that cultural fascination with UFOs has been longstanding, and the recent media attention and governmental discussions, especially since the 2017 New York Times article, have elevated the conversation. He notes a lack of theological engagement in this discourse and aims to bring a thoughtful Christian perspective to the topic.

Demonic Hypothesis: There is concern within some religious circles, particularly in the Pentagon, that UFOs could be demonic. Dr. Halstead emphasizes the need for careful, evidence-based consideration before jumping to such conclusions, as premature assumptions can cause unnecessary fear.

Religious Perspective on Extraterrestrials: Christianity, he argues, is not inherently threatened by the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), as Christian theology already accommodates non-human intelligences like angels. The potential discovery of ETI would not necessarily conflict with Christian doctrines.

The Collins Elite: The discussion touches on a rumored group called the Collins Elite within the government, who allegedly push a religious agenda, opposing UFO research due to fears of demonic influence. Dr. Halstead is skeptical of the group's existence but remains open to evidence.

Scientific Inquiry and Theology: Dr. Halstead advocates for a balanced, rational approach to the UFO phenomenon, involving both scientific investigation and theological inquiry. He emphasizes the importance of asking questions and being open to various interpretations, rather than succumbing to fear or dismissing the phenomenon outright.

Transhumanism and Technology: The conversation briefly veers into the topic of transhumanism and technological integration with humans, such as Elon Musk's Neuralink. Dr. Halstead expresses caution, emphasizing that while technology can aid human health, it should not replace the body or hinder human flourishing.

Theological Flexibility: He suggests that the Christian tradition has the conceptual flexibility to engage with the idea of ETI, as long as it’s approached thoughtfully. He also mentions that Christian figures like C.S. Lewis have speculated about extraterrestrials in their writings, indicating room within the tradition for such discussions.

Vatican Involvement: Regarding David Grusch's claims that the Vatican has information on UFOs, Dr. Halstead finds the credibility of such claims intriguing but remains cautious. He calls for more tangible evidence before drawing conclusions.

The discussion concludes with a reflection on the need for careful consideration of these issues within the Christian tradition and a call for more dialogue between theologians and the broader public on the implications of the UFO phenomenon.


TOPICS: UFO's
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1 posted on 09/24/2024 7:25:53 AM PDT by RoosterRedux
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To: RoosterRedux

Here’s the full transcript (it’s long):

Evidence for UFOs is mounting, and with every new revelation, more questions arise. However, for some people, these unidentified phenomena carry a deeper concern. They believe UFOs might be demonic. How do we discern the truth in the midst of mystery and speculation?

[Music]

Today, I’m joined by Dr. Matthew Halstead, a professor at Eternity Bible College in California, to explore this complex intersection of faith, theology, and the unexplained. Are we on the verge of a spiritual revolution, or is there a deception at play?

We’ll delve into religious identities, the possibility of extraterrestrial life, and the implications for traditional beliefs. We’ll also unpack claims about the Vatican’s involvement in UFO retrievals and explore the idea that religious assumptions by an alleged group called the “Collins Elite” may be influencing government decisions on non-human intelligence.

Join us as we get rebelliously curious.

Dr. Matthew Halstead, thank you so much for joining me on Rebelliously Curious today. Recently, you wrote an article that I think had a lot of buzz in the UFO community, and it was titled Evidence for UFOs Is Mounting, but Some Worry They’re Demonic. How can we discern the truth?

Dr. Halstead: Well, thank you so much for the kind invitation. I’m glad to be here.

Host: What made you want to write this article? I imagine that there’s so much media buzz going around, and people are talking about it. Have you been fascinated with UFOs when you were growing up, or did you just see this in the media and thought, “You know what? This is the time to have this conversation with the outlet you’re writing for,” but also, maybe it’s the right time to have it, especially with the claims that Lue Elizondo and David Grusch have recently come out with?

Dr. Halstead: Yeah, great question. The first part of it is, you know, I always like to tell people that I grew up in the ‘90s, and so we had some pretty interesting movies at that time, and it got us all thinking. I suspect that my generation has been waiting for a while for this, and now all the stuff is in the media, and it’s no longer fringe. So yeah, there has been a curiosity about this topic. I think that’s a generational thing, of course.

But as you mentioned, the whole conversation went to new levels with the 2017 New York Times article and the subsequent discussions and Congressional testimony after that. At the core of the story, or at least a central part of the story, was a religious and theological element. I’m a theology professor, so naturally, I’m going to gravitate toward that. I’ve been interested in this for a long time—ever since the 2017 article, I suppose.

It’s been reported very often in various media outlets—George Knapp, Ross Coulthart, and others have mentioned this—that there was pushback in the Pentagon against studying the phenomenon due to religious concerns that this might be a demonic sort of reality or whatever. It’s been discussed so much—from Jay Stratton to Lue Elizondo to Harry Reid, George Knapp has reported on it, and Ross Coulthart and others have too. So, it just seems to be kind of part of the narrative.

You know, I wasn’t there in the Pentagon, so I can’t say for certain, but nonetheless, it’s part of the narrative. It’s part of the story, and that is an important element that I’m interested in because narratives are very powerful. Whether true or not, it doesn’t matter; narratives are just very powerful. As a theology professor, I’m either around colleagues or I’ve studied this myself or written on stuff that has to do with the supernatural realm.

I began to think, “You know, it’s really interesting that more theologians are not weighing in on this topic,” especially since the narrative does seem to revolve around, or at least touch upon, a religious element. So, I’ve written a few articles, and I’ve just kind of encouraged folks to at least participate in the discussion. That was part of my motivation, really. I wanted to offer some thoughts on this topic and just throw out an opinion or two in the process.

Host: What was your first thought when you heard “demonic”? What do you instantly go to when you hear that? Because it’s a huge claim, saying that something is demonic that we can’t have proof of. And it doesn’t mean that Lue is right or wrong; I’m not saying that at all. It’s more about what was your initial thought. I know for me, when I hear “demonic,” I get scared, like instantly. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, are we opening up Pandora’s Box?” I think I’ve even asked Lue Elizondo that, you know, a couple of years ago when speaking with him.

I instantly get scared because interdimensional or potentially demonic things that we don’t understand, that live here, are in space and time, and potentially connected to spiritual stories of the past, can be very scary and unsettling for people. So, I’d love to hear from your perspective, and also as a Christian and as a doctor in this space, you know, what was the first thing you thought of and the feeling that came with it?

Dr. Halstead: Excellent question. I think that’s a topic that people are just musing through their brains: namely, “Okay, so this is something sinister.” When I think “demonic,” when I think “demon,” I think of something very dark and sinister, something that does not want to promote the health of human beings.

So, when that idea is tossed out there, I think it’s very important that it’s tossed out there with care and with some thought around it, because it can scare people. Not only am I a professor of biblical studies and theology, but I’m a confessional one. I’m a confessional theologian, meaning I am a Christian. I believe what I teach, and so there’s a pastoral element here. I’m like, “Okay, let’s actually think through this, and let’s make sure we’re being careful with it.”

I think if we scare people unnecessarily, that’s not a virtue. That’s actually harmful. So, I wanted to look at this question further. In my conversation with Lue, as reported in that article, I asked him, “Okay, people were pushing back because this was supposedly demonic. Did they ever give you evidence for why they actually thought it was demonic?” His answer, of course, was, “No, there was no logic to it.” He just really couldn’t understand it, and then he followed it up by saying, “Who knows? I mean, it could be demonic, but we need to at least investigate.”

I found that response very interesting because I have, obviously, a lot of friends within the church who have participated in exorcisms and things of that sort. One thing that was mentioned to me in a recent conversation through a couple of colleagues was that, even in the church, when we suspect something is demonic and we’re gearing up for an exorcism, we don’t jump to an exorcism. We don’t jump to a demonic hypothesis. We first rule out all sorts of other things.

We rule out hallucinations or whatever, or perhaps health issues—all of those things are ruled out in the church before you jump to a demon hypothesis. Circling back around to these discussions at the Pentagon that Lue is reporting, it’s interesting that that doesn’t seem to have been the case, at least according to the reports I’m hearing. It was just jumped to really quickly.

My concern would be if all that story is true—again, I wasn’t in the halls of the Pentagon to verify this—but if all those things are true and this hypothesis was jumped into prematurely, then I can’t help but wonder, “Okay, have we scared people prematurely?” I just want us to be very careful, methodical. I want us to be scientific and faithful with respect, especially to that aspect of the topic.

Host: That makes sense, and I appreciate that because you’re right. We have to settle people, and we have to at least try to have as much evidence as possible and make the correct moves moving forward so that we don’t create some mass hysteria of people thinking something that it might not be—or it could be, right? We need to have a handle on it. I have to know, when you say “exorcism,” I have to bring this up because I had not even thought of that, to be honest. Have you ever seen, in your past experiences, something related to UAP that might be demonic or not? Has someone said they’ve seen a UFO, and then an exorcism has been associated with it in any way? If so, where or when, if you’re open to speaking about that?

Dr. Halstead: Excellent question. I have not seen anything that was reported as UAP that ended up being demonic, for certain. I’m not an exorcist, but I know someone who’s very familiar with those sorts of things. I think it’s definitely something worth asking because I do believe, and I’ve heard stories, that would lend one to think this is something very sinister in some regard. Some people report experiences that are deeply disturbing, and in some of those cases, I would say, “Yeah, this sounds very demonic.”

From what I understand, from people who’ve worked in that field, I know of a couple of scholars who work in that sort of field, who have written on demonic things. That sounded bad—written on demonic things, written things about the demonic realm. From what I can gather, some reports are probably demonic. Here’s the thing: anybody who studies the UAP topic for any significant amount of time will tell you that at least the running theory is that this may not be a singular phenomenon, that this may be phenomena plural.

Just because Matt Halstead thinks that some cases could be demonic doesn’t mean that the entire thing is demonic. The fact of the matter is that there are many cases that don’t seem to have a malevolent context to them. Some cases seem to be just rather benign. There’s an excellent book written by a Princeton biblical scholar and historian, Dale Allison, called Encountering Mystery. In this book, he writes about many of his own experiences, and some of them are not like UAP, but they’re just what we would call paranormal experiences.

By the way, people know Dale Allison. He’s a superb scholar, highly respected in his field. He’s a senior scholar on so many levels, and he’s writing this book and sharing about his experiences or those of people who know him. Some of the experiences he describes, whether his own or others, they’re just benign—they’re just weird, they’re just odd. If that’s the case, I can’t think of a reason why one should conclude that that’s demonic. It could be, but there’s just not evidence for me to think that.

Host: It’s so hard because how do you have evidence? Like, what evidence would we have that it’s demonic? How could we prove that it just comes out and says, “Hey, I’m demonic”? I don’t think it works like that. Science needs to catch up, and we have to understand space and time way better than we do now. I personally lean more towards Jacques Vallée’s theories of interdimensional, living within our space and time, and we don’t really understand it being here or around us, or maybe potentially coming from somewhere else in the cosmos. Who knows?

That doesn’t mean that you can’t be interdimensional and travel throughout the cosmos too, right? We don’t know, but I think that we do have to be mindful that maybe one day there will be evidence, and it’d be really exciting. I think the question for a lot of people now is, does the government know this? Because here’s the thing: people like you and I could be working within the government and have a religious background and say, “Well, I believe this, and this is part of my religious beliefs,” and project that onto what they’re working on or working within the government, right? We see that all the time. There is sometimes no separation of that, unfortunately. There should be, I believe, at times, right? We need to separate, and we have that, but there are moments where people’s opinions and feelings do come into government, and we see that.

Do you really believe that there’s something called the Collins Elite within the government, and they know more, or are they an organization that’s there because they have an understanding of religion and a belief within religion that they feel needs to be put within government as well, to be safe, or to have some kind of, maybe, order—I’ll use the word? But, you know, is that possible, that the Collins Elite does exist? How much do they actually know, or do they know anything at all?

Dr. Halstead: That’s a question that’s been around for quite some time—that there is a religious group, whether formal or informal, that is pushing against this topic because they’re religious people and they think this is something demonic. They don’t even want to get involved in this. “You don’t want to study it because you’re opening doors up to the demonic,” right? That’s our way of thinking.

As to your question, do I know that they exist? I really don’t know. I’ve not met anybody who said, “Hey, yeah, I’m actually part of the Collins Elite. We meet at 7 PM. Do you want to join us?” I’ve never... I just don’t know.

Host: Yeah, my invite got lost.

Dr. Halstead: That’s right, and I’m not typically available at 7 PM, if you’re listening, so maybe we could work on another time. But what I would say is that whether they have a name or not, whether they have a badge or whatever, it seems that this has been reported enough, on the record by people, that it seems to... I seem to think that there was religious pushback in the Pentagon. Who they all were, how many people, I just don’t know. I certainly don’t know for certain.

But my question would be to them, as a sincere Christian—I wear that badge, and I’m not ashamed of that badge by no means—and so I ask this question in good faith to everybody involved in this aspect of the story: what sort of evidence do you have? There seems to have to be some sort of evidence that you have that this is demonic, or otherwise, it’s just an assumption. If it’s just an assumption without evidence, I get it. I totally get it. This is kind of a fearful aspect—kind of what you and I were talking about—when you first hear the word “demon,” everything just kind of immediately comes because of our assumptions. I get it. Assumptions are very powerful.

But let’s go have a drink and then just kind of settle down, and then let’s come back to this question and say, “Okay, what sort of evidence do we have?” I think that’s a worthwhile question. If there is a group at the Pentagon who are pushing back for religious beliefs, it should not be a threatening question to them, simply because if I’m asking you to set down your assumptions for a moment, it doesn’t mean you have to leave them down. You can pick them back up. But let’s just look at this objectively, and if we can find evidence that it is demonic, I’m on your team. If we can find evidence that it’s not, okay, let’s ask further questions.

I think I can point to examples in history where, whether it’s a scientific discovery or something to that effect, it’s come out as a new discovery, and there’s been concern, initial concern, or angst, or anxiety. We think of the Copernican Revolution, or the story I mentioned in my article—the gorilla story, which was fascinating once I learned that. We hear these stories of humanoid creatures in Africa who live in huts and steal women and do all these sorts of things, and it turns out those were just sort of mythic rumors or whatever. They weren’t true, but there was something true behind them—the myth, namely, a real-life scientific discovery. It’s an example of how sometimes we can discover something real in science, and initially, we’re afraid because it feels uncomfortable or whatever.

Could it be that UAPs are like that? Possibly. What if it’s just another species, some third rational species? The great Christian thinker C.S. Lewis seemed to be open to that idea. He wrote about extraterrestrials in his fiction, and he seemed to give credence to the idea that there could be these “fairy” creatures, kind of a Jacques Vallée sort of thing. Within the Christian tradition, there’s room for that sort of thing.

My fear is that for these people, if they exist, who are pushing back out of fear of demons, I wonder if they don’t know the Christian tradition as well as they should. There is actually room within it. One author, a dear friend of mine, Dr. Paul Thigpen, PhD from Emory University, actually wrote a paper for the Soul Foundation too, so I encourage everybody to go check that out. Paul has written really well on this topic about the idea of NHI, and he’s talked about this within the Christian tradition. He’s a historical theologian by training, and he can help. I think someone like him could really help folks see that just because it’s weird and strange does not mean it is demonic. It could be, but let’s just investigate, which was Lue’s point in the article that I wrote: Let’s just investigate.

Host: Are we on a spiritual and religious revolution right now? Are we going towards that? I would imagine that some of the things that are happening right now, when we look at deception, for example, or other elements, are pointing toward some kind of coming. Do you feel that we’re on some form of evolution or a spiritual revolution? Would Christianity back that or not?

Dr. Halstead: Yeah, great question. I see what you’re saying. I can’t speak for religions. By no means would I want to do that. What I would say is that if it turns out we’re going to have capital-D Disclosure—that the government knows about NHI, that they’re here, they’ve been here, or whatever the case may be—and we come out with a startling revelation that we’re not alone in the universe, I think Christianity would not be harmed by that.

People may say, “Well, okay, Matt, but you’re kind of biased toward Christianity in that regard,” and I would say, “Well, let’s just look at it.” I invite everybody to look at that question. There’s nothing in Christian theology that would be threatened by the reality that there are non-human intelligences, partly because Christianity has already incorporated that idea within its own religious texts and traditions. We already believe in non-human intelligences—they’re called angels, they’re called the Watchers, they’re called whatever. Demons, or God, is a non-human intelligence.

I think that, broadly speaking, we have the categories to make sense of that. Moreover, even as I said earlier, in the Christian tradition, we have folks like C.S. Lewis, St. Jerome, and even St. Augustine who have spoken about this topic—not ET per se, well, C.S. Lewis did—but nonetheless, they were talking about this in a way that would accommodate a view such as, or the belief, or the reality of, NHI existence.

Now, what would end up happening is that Christians who may or may not be informed about the Christian tradition might need to get informed about that. Initially, they would feel perhaps a little angst, like, “Okay, well, the Bible doesn’t say anything about this topic.” I get that. You know, the Bible also doesn’t say that the sun is 93 million miles away from the earth. There’s a lot of things that the Bible doesn’t talk about. As soon as we understand that the Bible was, or is, a theology book and not a scientific book in that sense, once we understand that, then I think it’s going to be more easily accommodated.

That said, I get it. A lot of people are going to have to think through this. If someone thinks the Bible is a science book, then that might be problematic for them. But in terms of the Christian tradition proper, in terms of Christian theology and doctrine proper, I can see nothing with respect to NHI existence that would threaten Christianity.

Host: So, we get to a point in history where we understand what this is to some degree. There is this conversation, obviously, in theology about deception, right? But looking at it, saying that Christians already believe in angels and God as being non-human too, but there’s also the theory of deception, right? Not following false idols and being potentially deceived. What happens then? Does the Christian religion embrace, do they observe and wait? Where does that fit in? Because it kind of does, and it doesn’t at the same time.

Dr. Halstead: Good question. It goes back to the question of just investigating. If this is deceptive, say, well, the way you can parse out deception, the way that you can catch deception, is by asking questions. So, okay, if ET landed on the White House lawn tonight at the inconvenient time of, say, 7 PM—an hour later, and I catch up with it—everybody’s kind of getting together for coffee at that late hour.

You know, I would say, “That’s pretty cool, and I’d still go to church on Sunday.” It wouldn’t bother me. Now, one thing that would come up would be if ET came and they said, “Hey guys, there is no God. By the way, there’s no God, and we’ve learned this through our educational system, and we’re a little older than you, and we’ve learned that there is no God.” I would just simply look at that and say, “Well, that’s interesting. That doesn’t threaten Christianity. That’s not a challenge to Christianity.”

We already have people on Earth who say there is no God, and the fact of the matter is, as Christian philosophers have said, belief in God is grounded upon other foundations than just what ETI might say, or even what people might say. So yeah, there’s an excellent article I referenced a couple of articles ago that I wrote on this, and they basically say this: belief in God is established on other grounds. The Christian tradition is full of all sorts of arguments for the existence of God.

Nonetheless, if ET were to come and tell us that there is no God, I would just say, “Well, I disagree.” We’ve been disagreeing with that idea for a very long time, and it’s nothing new. It could be that ET is not demonic. It doesn’t mean that they’re demonic. It could mean they’re mistaken. It could mean that they are deceptive. Maybe they have ulterior motives or whatever, but it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re demonic. It could mean they’re demonic and deceptive, but again, we need to ask questions.

That’s what we need to do. Now, we haven’t had a White House landing yet—if indeed we ever will—but we do have the narrative, as I spoke about earlier. We do have a conversation about this, and this is a conversation that I do want people to know is not foreign to theologians. Theologians have been talking about this question for a long time because there’s great value in asking the question of, “What if there’s ET?” because that would help us to think through our theology in different ways. How might the death of Jesus influence an ET civilization? C.S. Lewis wrote about that a little bit.

So, we’ve been talking about that question for a long time, and if there is deception involved in any of this modern-day UFO, UAP conversation, well, let’s just start asking questions. Then we can sift through and find the truth.

Host: What are your thoughts on David Grusch’s claims about the Vatican knowing, having more information about alleged UFO crashes or ET connections, and also potentially having materials and knowing this for a very long time, since the reign of Mussolini? When you read that, you must have been like, “Whoa!” Or watched it on NewsNation when they broke it. What did you think?

Also, the Vatican has not made a statement claiming it or disclaiming it yet, so we’re still kind of waiting to hear back. But from what I’ve heard from other government officials, that part could potentially be misinformation. They’re not sure. We all are not sure until it’s disproven to some degree. Right now, it’s just a theory. But what are your thoughts on the David Grusch comments?

Dr. Halstead: I have two thoughts on it. First of all, David Grusch is a very interesting, highly credible person who came not only just to NewsNation, but he was in The Debrief too, right? He even testified to Congress under oath about his claims, and there have been lots of conversations, as I understand it, that he’s had with people behind the scenes too. It’s an incredible case, and an incredible testimony that he gave. His credibility level is extremely high, so all of that’s just super fascinating.

But the second thing I would say is, for me, the question is not so much, “Is it true?” The question is, at this point in time, “Am I justified in believing that it’s true?” Now, on the one hand, David Grusch is highly credible. I totally get that. On the other hand, maybe it’s just the skeptic in me, but it’s not skepticism per se. I’m open to anything, but I want to see pictures. I want them to bring out the H-trailer and just open it up and say, “Matt, have fun for the next hour!” I want to look at the stuff. I want to see it if it’s there.

Until I can actually get proof, it’s responsible for me just to simply say, “I don’t know.” I do know, though, that what’s happening in the U.S. Senate with Senator Chuck Schumer’s groundbreaking UAP Disclosure Act, round part two—him and Mike Rounds have put this out, and it’s a stunning piece of legislation. I highly encourage anybody just to go read it. It’s fascinating on so many levels. Given that someone with the stature of Senator Chuck Schumer is putting out this legislation, I just want to say, “Okay, it seems like it’s not just a question about David Grusch. It seems to be a question of what Chuck Schumer is thinking, what the United States Senate is thinking, and what the real reason for this stunning piece of legislation is.”

So, David Grusch is an integral part of this whole story—a very important part, no doubt—but he’s a spoke in the greater wheel, and there are more spokes out there. When you take them all together, you really have to stop and think, “What in the world is going on?” The narrative suggests that it’s not easily dismissed. What the truth is, I don’t know, but again, it’s worth asking questions.

Host: We’re in a wild time right now. Every time I watch the news on this, sometimes I feel like I’m going through mini daily paradigm shifts, where I’m like, “What do I believe?” Also, “What do I know?” when I look at this and how I feel in conjunction with hearing these things or talking to other people about these claims. It’s wild. We are living through a very interesting time when people are evaluating themselves more than ever. I believe that two years ago, the number one word was “narcissism,” right, in the Webster dictionary. We hear things like “gaslighting” too.

The reason why I say that is that people are becoming more aware of other people’s actions and the cause and effect and how it applies to them. I think people are trying to look deeper, and that could be from a spiritual perspective but also just a personal perspective too, understanding themselves in the context of everything that’s going on around them right now because we’re moving at rapid rates. A friend of mine said to me, Marie Nicola, one of my best friends, said, “Chrissy, let’s say in the ‘50s or the early ‘20s and ‘30s, the amount of knowledge that one person had in their head was pretty much the same depth and content as a New York Times newspaper, and that was it. That was their entire life; that’s how much information they knew and could consume.” So, no wonder we’re all having trouble sometimes understanding what’s going on because we’re evolving so fast, information is evolving so fast, and we’re trying to catch up with it and understand it.

I don’t know if we have those abilities yet to do that. Maybe we don’t have the abilities to see these things yet because we’re not there, and we’re going through, obviously, that paradigm shift and evolution of the human mind.

Dr. Halstead: I was going to say, yeah, it’s information overload, especially with this topic, and it can be challenging to find the narrative within all the data points. It’s extremely challenging. I think we just need to be responsible with the data points and responsible for finding that narrative, whatever it may be.

I tell people all the time, it doesn’t matter what you believe, if there are actually little green men, this is just a very interesting mystery that’s worth looking into a little bit.

Host: I think so too. It really is. I wonder—and I’ve asked this to other people recently too—about the evolution of transhumanism. The idea of putting machinery or some technology in us where we’re kind of like cyborgs now, right, with our cell phones. I think Elon Musk has said that many times, and we would all agree, but instead of us having it externally, we have it internally. How does Christianity look at that in view of transhumanism?

Potentially, it could give us the ability to connect with something that is other than us and have the ability to see something that might be demonic or spiritual, but it also could hinder that, and it could do nothing at all. We don’t know. Where does Christianity sit with that evolution?

Dr. Halstead: Technology is an interesting question, and you’re right. Our cell phone, in many ways, is sort of... we hold it all the time. It’s right there with us. I actually don’t think that’s all that healthy. I don’t think that the overload in technology is actually all that healthy. With AI that can write your emails and your letters and your books even, AI can do pretty much everything. I think that there’s a loss there. There’s a loss in the sense of engaging one’s mind and growing as a writer or whatever. It’s like, I don’t want to rely on AI to do that. I want to continue to grow myself. Yeah, it’s going to take me a lot longer, it’s more work, it’s tiring, but is it worth it for human flourishing?

I’m not anti-technology at all. It turns out I do have a cell phone that I carry around all the time, so I get it. I totally get it. In terms of transhumanism, I’m not against using technology to promote our health or anything of that sort, but I will say that—and this is just a topic I know very little about, so I want to preface that—but I will say that within Christian theology, the body is important. There are many Christians who seem to have this idea that the goal in all of life is to shun the body and then just leave it and finally go to heaven and be there for eternity when we die.

What’s interesting about that is that that’s more Greek philosophy than it was ever Christianity. At the heart of Christianity was the resurrection of the body, and God promises one day that we would all have our own Resurrection Day. God is out to redeem the body, so anything that would seem to try to replace the body or to set the body aside, whether with human technology or whatever, I think there’s an unhealthiness there that would actually impede our flourishing as human beings. Again, not to say that I’m against medical technology to help us. We use it all the time. I’ve used it in my own health, and we all do.

I’m a bit of a, how would I put it, I’m the guy with the red flag, holding things up and saying, “Okay guys, let’s stop and think about this a little bit more.” Let’s go back to what I said earlier: let’s just ask more questions before we do these sorts of things.

Host: I think that’s a good idea too. I know Elon Musk, recently with Neuralink, has made a comment where at one point in time, in history, and I don’t know when that will be, but we’ll be able to take our own memories and upload them into some other body, right? And be able to do that. It could be another physical body, it could be a computer-based body, but that is on the way to being in development, which is wild to think.

So then it stops to think, “Okay, what does consciousness mean?” And then also, does that make us live forever? Because he believes and says that we can keep our memories—that is what keeps us being human, outside of the conversation of religious and spiritual meaning, but in a scientific way. I would say, for him, a part of meaning is that we would be able to live forever because we would be able to recall memories and be able to live through those experiences and keep living through those memories and developing new ones.

Your personality potentially—well, we don’t know—might stay in place. Does that mean the constant of the person, but also then, what about the soul? It’s a really wild time right now. I write about Neuralink and I cover it, and every time I’m following it, I’m just dumbfounded by what he says—not in a bad way or a good way, just dumbfounded in general about the advancement of technology and then all these other questions about meaning that are so important to all of us. We might not speak about it every day, but I know for sure we think about it.

Dr. Halstead: We do, and it is a conversation that’s out there. What I would say is—this is me holding up my red flag—a couple of things. When it comes to consciousness, or one’s thoughts and mind and memories, so much of those sorts of things are actually tied up within our body. When I smell something, it reminds me of my grandmother’s house. It’s very difficult to parse out those sorts of things without a body or some sort of embodiment. Those are questions that would need to be addressed and whatnot.

The second thing I would say is, my field is the humanities in a sense, right? My field is that. So, I’m not a natural scientist. There was a great meme not too long ago, and I’ve always remembered this because it justifies my humanities degree. The meme goes like this: the natural scientists can teach us how to bring back the dinosaurs, like in Jurassic Park, but it’s the humanities folks who will remind us why that’s a bad idea.

I think science will take us down many beautiful paths, with interesting things and wonderful discoveries and so forth, but I would encourage them to listen to the philosophers. Christians have a very rich tradition of philosophy—from Augustine to Aquinas to so many people, St. Gregory—and we’ve been talking about, in a roundabout way, these sorts of things. Perhaps there are things there that would be fruitful and helpful to this larger discussion.

I think there are philosophical questions that would need to be answered first. Science, we must be reminded, is something that can keep us alive and extend life—hospital medical technology and so forth. But let us not forget that technology, if put in the hands of the wrong person, can also create a hydrogen bomb and actually use it. So, I just like to say, “Okay, what are the ramifications of these sorts of ideas that are being said? What sort of moral and ethical obligations do we have as human beings before we launch off into the laboratory?” So, that’s my red flag.

Host: I agree with you too. I think the soft sciences, for sure, are so important. I really believe, and I think a lot of people like Dr. Garry Nolan and Peter Skafish believe, that the humanities need to really take hold of the UAP topic, at least, because it’s time. Government, I think, is a great place, and I did a podcast earlier on this. If counterintelligence are the right people to be handling this topic—and it’s not saying that they’re not—they for sure should be involved. But I think we do need to give it to the soft sciences right now, along with the hard sciences.

The soft sciences are coming in, and we’re seeing that now. I’m having even more discussions with people that are in anthropology, more than I’ve ever had before, and they are my favorite discussions, to be honest, because I think a lot of us want to know the meaning of life and what this means, especially in the future. What does it mean to us? Again, we might not talk about it a lot, but I think people do think about it, and they consider it when we’re going through such an evolution of self throughout this time.

My last question to you is: within Christianity, the idea that man is made in the eye of God—if we come in contact with other ETs or other entities of some form that are non-human, that we don’t consider to be man or human or like us, are they made in the eye of God? Or are they not? How would we look at that through a Christian lens?

Dr. Halstead: Fantastic question. Christians have addressed that question in slightly different ways, and different traditions might answer it slightly differently. One thing I would say is that, you get this idea that humans are made in the image of God, and it comes from Genesis. A lot of this language about the image of God, from a historical ancient Near Eastern perspective, is that images were essentially reflections of the one who was sovereign. By your very being, you’re just reflecting the goodness, the beauty, and the truth of God.

Wrapped up into that was his sovereignty. In the ancient world, images were constructed of the gods or the kings or whatever and placed in very important strategic locations across their kingdom. Those images would remind travelers or whoever that, “Okay, this person is the sovereign over this land,” right? I think that human beings, within the historical context of Genesis, are like that. What it means to be an image-bearer is definitely a vocation. It also has to do with our ontology, our very being, but it’s also a vocational responsibility such that, to be the image of God is to flourish as one who essentially mirrors his goodness, his truth, and his beauty to everyone that they encounter.

It is true Christians believe that all humans are made in the image of God, and that’s why the core of our doctrine is loving one’s neighbor as oneself, loving God with all of our heart. Love is such a central virtue for Christians, and it’s because of the image-bearing idea.

Now, when it comes to ET, would they bear the image of God? I suppose that if God saw fit to create extraterrestrial intelligence or some sort of NHI, he would have had a purpose for them too in some way. It could be very similar to the purpose that he gave us; it could be remarkably different. All the same, I would just echo what the Psalms say in scripture: that God is good to all that he has made.

One wonders, though, if they start talking to us about God first. They may have their own theology, and they can tell us why God has made them in his image too. These are very important questions. Depending on one’s particular Christian tradition, we might answer them slightly differently. But all this goes back to my first point earlier, that the Christian tradition could definitely accommodate that reality.

Host: UFO folklore—we’ve heard, I’m forgetting his name now, it’s G—Millennial Hospitality was the book. I’m forgetting his name, but he allegedly worked at S4 or on Dreamland and said that he was a weather observer and that he ended up coming across different forms of ETs, right? He says, this is his story, and he was really the only person to do that, and nobody else was chosen but him, because of the ETs that were visiting. It was kind of like a pit stop where they would learn about humans. There were students, there were children, so he says that within this one contact with him, he does say that one of the teachers was passing and said to the student, “They believe in God, but it’s a different God than our God.”

I thought that was really interesting. Out of all those stories that I’ve heard from him, I thought that was really interesting. It’s not saying I believe it, but it’s interesting to think that, obviously, they’re still wondering too. I guess we never really talk about that, because we think they are maybe some form of smarter intelligence than we are. I’ve said this multiple times: it doesn’t mean that they can’t make mistakes too. Just because you’re interdimensional or you’re more intelligent doesn’t mean you don’t screw up. It doesn’t mean that you don’t know, right?

So, I think that it doesn’t mean that we should believe them if this ever does come to some form of scientific revolution for us, because we might come to a point where they say, “We’re wondering just as much, or whatever it may be, just as much as you guys are.” It doesn’t mean it’s going to answer our questions; it actually just might open more.

Dr. Halstead: This is the reality that we currently live in anyway. I have met so many wonderful people, and even within the Christian tradition, there are different traditions within the great tradition, right? Of course, the whole world isn’t Christian, and we have different theologies or whatever. Yet, we can still care for each other, we can still ask questions, and we can have dialogues.

I suspect that if there was an ET creature, being, who was interested in theology, I’d be interested in talking with them.

Host: Me too. I think that’s a great way to end the show. Thank you so much, Dr. Halstead. It has been wonderful speaking with you, and thank you for being rebelliously curious with me today.

Dr. Halstead: Thank you so very much.


2 posted on 09/24/2024 7:26:49 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Thinking objectively is difficult. And painful. That’s why many people just cling to their biases.)
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To: Openurmind; Churchjack; eastforker; Levy78; maddog55; Jonty30; GingisK; Mark17; spirited irish; ...

UFO ping


3 posted on 09/24/2024 7:27:35 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Thinking objectively is difficult. And painful. That’s why many people just cling to their biases.)
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To: RoosterRedux

“Dr. Halstead emphasizes the need for careful, evidence-based consideration”

The term “evidence-based” really means “forget about the truth, just believe what we tell you to believe.”


4 posted on 09/24/2024 7:32:22 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (What are the personal implications if the Resurrection of Christ is a true event in history?)
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To: All
Here's a link to Dr. Halstead's article in Premier Christianity entitled "Evidence for UFOs Is Mounting, but Some Worry They're Demonic"
5 posted on 09/24/2024 7:36:47 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Thinking objectively is difficult. And painful. That’s why many people just cling to their biases.)
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To: reasonisfaith
That's not how the term is used here.

Look at the context, "There is concern within some religious circles, particularly in the Pentagon, that UFOs could be demonic. Dr. Halstead emphasizes the need for careful, evidence-based consideration before jumping to such conclusions, as premature assumptions can cause unnecessary fear."

He's saying, "Don't jump to conclusions with knowing the details."

6 posted on 09/24/2024 7:40:35 AM PDT by RoosterRedux (Thinking objectively is difficult. And painful. That’s why many people just cling to their biases.)
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To: RoosterRedux

My father once said he’d believe in UFOs when a space creature appears on the Johnny Carson show.

Given that there’s no real evidence of UFOs, I believe I’ll go with that train of thought.

(I don’t discount that the government might be hiding things from us. But I think I’ll still wait for that talk show appearance.)


7 posted on 09/24/2024 7:41:47 AM PDT by Leaning Right (The steal is real.)
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To: RoosterRedux

yeah

we’re not being visited

i’ve endured so much stupidity it hurts

the human race is 95% total moron

cigarette smoking, honey boo boo watching bottom feeders

everyone who votes democrat is certifiably retarded

aliens did not rise to the level of space travel and navigate infinity to show up on our rock and crash their hot rods

you idiots


8 posted on 09/24/2024 7:49:47 AM PDT by WeaslesRippedMyFlesh (there will come a day when FR rejects articles from the NYT, et al. as "Commie trash, no thank you"e)
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To: RoosterRedux

Not swamp gas or weather balloons?


9 posted on 09/24/2024 7:51:10 AM PDT by Salman (It's not a slippery slope if it was part of the program all along. )
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To: RoosterRedux
Interesting topic. Here's another perspective:

Jimmy Akin's Mysterious World - It’s Always Alien-Demons? (UFOs, Extraterrestrials, Demonology)

10 posted on 09/24/2024 7:54:05 AM PDT by fidelis (Ecce Crucem Domini! Fugite partes adversae! Vicit Leo de tribu Juda, Radix David! Alleluia!)
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To: Leaning Right

“Given that there’s no real evidence of UFO..”

So what exactly are all the pilots seeing when they report discs buzzing their planes, just for starters?

UFOs have been chronicled throughout recorded history. It is not a new concept.


11 posted on 09/24/2024 7:54:25 AM PDT by odawg
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To: WeaslesRippedMyFlesh

https://thejournalofcosmology.com/Puthoff.pdf


12 posted on 09/24/2024 7:58:02 AM PDT by cgbg ("Our democracy" = Their Kleptocracy)
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To: WeaslesRippedMyFlesh
”… we’re not being visited …”

.

Oh yeah?

Tell us then - just how did the demonic weasels get here, huh?

/Sarc

13 posted on 09/24/2024 7:58:57 AM PDT by GaltAdonis
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To: Leaning Right

“ Given that there’s no real evidence of UFOs.”

Eh, there’s plenty of evidence that unexplained things appear to be flying around.

Now, what they are is pure conjecture. Man made, some natural phenomena, optical illusions, aliens, time travelers, inter dimensional, demons, whatever, is where there is zero evidence.


14 posted on 09/24/2024 8:06:57 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Orange is the new brown in)
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To: GaltAdonis

well, that’s different


15 posted on 09/24/2024 8:07:21 AM PDT by WeaslesRippedMyFlesh (there will come a day when FR rejects articles from the NYT, et al. as "Commie trash, no thank you"e)
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To: RoosterRedux

Maybe it’s just aliens?

Although I do wonder why they seem to want to stay hidden. Why they don’t just land in a population center and say “hello”


16 posted on 09/24/2024 8:09:26 AM PDT by Mr. K (No consequence of repealing obamacare is worse than obamacare itself)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

I posted this in a other thread, but fits in this thread too- not sure what I saw- likely a purely natural explanation, but here it is:

Went outside last ight and there were these 8 or so lights (I was busy trying to take a photo of them because they were so unusual, so didn’t count how many- unfortunately couldn’t get a good photo because of the darkness- too shaky due to slow shutter speed)

They were in a figure 4 pattern- neatly aligned, and didn’t move for several minutes, then they began very slowly moving, and fading out slowly.

The lights were red, and the size compared to seeing a star size, was maybe 20 times the size in appearance- and were very prominent in the sky. Whole family saw it.

Not sure what they were- the fact that they slowly faded out indicates aybe flares, or even perhaps those Chinese lanterns or whatever they are called that floatup in the air, but the fact that they were so neatly arranged in a figure 4 pattern was real.y odd.

I’ve seen the starlink formation before, and this was not that


17 posted on 09/24/2024 8:12:03 AM PDT by Bob434
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To: odawg

> UFOs have been chronicled throughout recorded history. <

Agreed. There is evidence for unidentified objects. But there is no evidence that such objects are creatures from somewhere else. It could be. Or it could be natural phenomena. Or it could be our CIA fooling around. Who knows?

Are UFOs worth investigating? I would think so. But I gotta see the evidence before jumping to the next level.


18 posted on 09/24/2024 8:13:55 AM PDT by Leaning Right (The steal is real.)
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To: Bob434

No clue. With drone light shows, it’s now impossible to guess.


19 posted on 09/24/2024 8:19:07 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Orange is the new brown in)
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To: Mr. K

Maybe they watched Kamala and her voters and decided we are stupid and dangerous.


20 posted on 09/24/2024 8:20:08 AM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (Orange is the new brown in)
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