Ukrainian warplane fires weapon at target inside Russia for first time

Sky News ^ | 6/9/2024 | Artem Lysak

[marcusmaximus]

A Ukrainian warplane has for the first time fired a weapon that struck a target inside Russia, a Ukrainian military source has told Sky News.

The source said a "Russian command node" was hit on Sunday in the area of Belgorod, western Russia.

Belgorod is close to the border with northeastern Ukraine.

-snip-

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the military source told Sky News: "A Ukrainian Air Force (UAF) mission has struck a Russian command node in Belgorod.

"Whilst damage assessment is still occurring, it is confirmed as a direct hit. This is the first UAF air-delivered munition delivered against a target within Russia."

Ukraine has launched multiple drone strikes deep into Russian territory. But the use of a warplane to strike targets inside Russia could be seen by Moscow as a new escalation.

[Alas Babylon!]

Far more accidents have almost happened than is publicly known, but then smarter men—on both sides—have always prevailed. this is because it is real life, not a spy or war movie or novel.

Those men remain in the background and don’t make stupid political threats or post what ifs.

Thank God smarter men than selected leaders.

But anything can happen, as you say. If it does, life will be very hard for the survivors. There will be no winners.

[Kazan]

Rus Captures Chasov Yar District, Ukr Retreats; Biden Macron Tense Talks: US/EU States No Troops Ukr

[bimboeruption]

>>>>He has gotten the reputation for bluffing so he pointed out he doesn’t WANT nuclear war, and there hasn’t been a reason to use nukes thus far. He affirmed that nukes are not on the table right now.<<<<

According to that statement, Putin hasn’t ruled out their use.

I wonder what would cause him to hit the button?

[Who is John Galt?]

I'm reminded (for some reason) of an observation made by a structural engineer with whom I was speaking, several years ago. He noted that there are two types of unknowns: things you know that you don't know, and things you don't know that you don't know. In his opinion, it's the latter that usually gets people killed.

Unfortunately, I've also noticed over the years that the vast majority of people think they know more than they really do - which is a potentially fatal tendency, if the structural engineer was correct (and FWIW, I believe he was).

As you say, thank God there are smart men on both sides, but anything can happen...

[delta7]

It’ll stop when the Russian troops leave Ukraine.
———-
Reality check- Vlad is never leaving his Russian Provinces, for many reasons. I don’t believe in Unicorns and don’t take the drug Hopeium.

Time ( again ) for negotiations, Vlad has shown much restraint, but his unplugging of Ukraine from Lvov to Kiev is showing his patience is wearing.

[ansel12]

I never see anyone describing how a small nuclear exchange wipes out the nations involved for generations, not in body counts but in economic and social systems.

Wouldn’t the countries involved in a limited exchange hitting a few of their economic and population centers be somewhat removed from the world stage for a few decades while their economies and economic structure recovered and those economic hubs and the people and data making them up were replaced?

[higgmeister]

Putin has been threatening to use nuclear weapons since 2022. He’s bluffing.

Wouldn't you love to find out if he is?   How deep down and well stocked is your hardened silo that you intend to spend the last days in?

[Alas Babylon!]

Every nuclear war game I’ve been in goes full and total exchange eventually unless they arbitrarily stop it. They often did, usually going for a few hours at most. Even those that start out kind of tit-for-tat eventually go full on, because who wants to get sucker-punched and lose all your leverage if you enemy/potential enemy has nukes left when yours are gone due to not reacting in time?

China could think they’re going to wait out a Russia/USA slugfest, but neither side wants them to later dictate nuclear terms, so they get targeted, too. Same for Pakistan/India, Israel/Iran, and the British and French will follow America, as they’d be as likely targets of Russia, too. And who can blame Russia even if the French say they’ll remain neutral?

No, the whole world suffers. Also, at Cheyenne Mountain weather data was cycled in in real time so we know which way the fallout would go at any particular time. Not just fallout but really huge radioactive dust storms. Here in the USA, winds are generally west to east, but not every day. Same worldwide. You’d think your country would be safe, but...

The only “benefit” I can say was back in my day bombs/warheads were bigger due to some imprecision of the delivery vehicle (missile or aircraft). Now that accuracy is much better, warhead size has shrunk.

[ansel12]

Everything I’ve read pretty much agrees with that but my real point was trying to educate the people who think that Russia would come out better because they are better prepared with Civil Defense.

I think that the body counts deciding who won to be ridiculous, it would be people left in a nation that won’t be substantial again for generations so there isn’t anything to win since all participating nations involved would become second or third rate for decades and not be major players anymore.

I also assume the world economy would be wrecked, everyone would be set back so far that the original arguments and competition that led to the exchange are evaporated and longer apply, there is no solution or better positioning coming out of a nuclear exchange, no new resources or territory to take, no new markets, nothing to take since the participants would be limited to domestic challenges for decades to come, tied up with local concerns and rebuilding their economy, government and social structure.

[higgmeister]

Ever notice that the only people calling for and predicting Russian use of nuclear weapons are the most staunch of Russophilians?

You cannot be that touched in the head.   Nobody is predicting anything.   We only know, unlike you, that a cornered animal will lash out in a desperate attempt to keep from being killed.

How many times have you said to yourself, "if they come after me, I'm taking some of them with me?"   Would Putin be more likely or less likely to think that way.

If you wage war against a nuclear power, at some point when one side gets the upper hand, the other side will use the ultimate weapon.   Why have a weapon if it will never be used.

Maybe you are too sheltered to know that the Soviets prepared to survive nuclear war whereas we accepted the loser strategy of duck and cover (bend over and kiss it goodbye).   The Soviet Union gave mandatory civil Defense training to the population.   The had TV learning shows with instructions on how to improvise a blast shelter and what to do in the event of an attack.   As a test they moved factories to the hinterlands and buried the machines under yards of dirt to be dug up and put back into use after the war, to prove it was feasible.   They evacuated a city to prove they could do it.

The Russians have always been better at surviving nuclear war and as such would be much more likely to use that option.   They even still remember how to survive through starvation and famine.

Here is a declassified .pdf document from 1959 on the CIA.GOV website.

CIVIL DEFENSE IN THE SOVIET UNION

I am not a Russophile.   I would rather develop a friend as we were doing with Russia until the Globalists and Neocons took government away from us.

[PIF]

I would rather develop a friend as we were doing with Russia

—

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You are certifiable if you imagine Russia would ever be our friend; Russia is friend to no one, no county. Shows how little you know about Russia and its history and announced intentions.

Unless, of course, you are a Russophile, to say such silly things.

[higgmeister]

Tell these people that the Russians have always believed that they had a better chance of surviving Nuclear war than we have believed.   That Russians also have had a slightly darker side to their psyche, perhaps from their harsh climate or the more difficult plight of the peasants bordering on fatalism.

[xone]

The US had to use two to get Japan to surrender.

Those weren't 'nukes'. They would be a trigger for a nuke.

[Alas Babylon!]

Yes, Izvestia, Pravda and the Party officials told the people that.

But real nuclear force officers and people in the know knew you had to say that.

Putin, as I say, is not a fool. He knows there is no winning. In fact, given Russia’s position in the direction winds blow from West to East, and the far Northern climate of the country, the survivability of those Russians who aren’t instantly killed will be worse than most countries.

We can’t defeat Russia nuclearly, we’ll only kill everyone. The same applies to them vis-a-vis winning against us. We should NEVER get into a war with Russia conventionally, either, as this could still be the outcome. On the other hand, they can’t just be allowed to have their will everywhere.

Now this is just my opinion, based on nothing more. Biden—or should I say his handlers—played a deadly game of push with Russia, and I think things really snowballed into absurdity with the democrats Russian Collusion Hoax, and then Trump’s first impeachment over nothing. This brought the Ukraine matter to the top, and YES Biden used his son to rake in cash—so Trump was right to ask Zelensky about it. This trouble with Putin began with Obama and his wicked secretary of state Hillary. Her reset button with Lavrov was indicative of where her mind was. She is always plotting, but in every word and deed she gives herself away. Trump couldn’t do much with simmering things down given the lies festering the national politic due to her. If we do get into a horrible war it will be her fault.—My opinion.

Still, despite who or which party represents the administration, America does have historic interests in Europe.

But again, that’s my opinion.

Now its more than opinion, reality really, the fact that a country with nukes cannot “win” a nuclear war with a nuclear armed adversary and should be avoided at almost all costs. Moreover, Putin knows this. Biden doesn’t know much but is kept far away from nuclear command and control.

[higgmeister]

Look, I meant friend in the sense of an understanding that we will cooperate with Russia in our space program and cooperate with Russia against China's efforts to takeover all of Asia and the Pacific.   We could have been a trading partner with Russia instead of forcing them to make deals with China.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia was on its knees, just as Germany, Japan and Italy was after WWII and we became friends, just as we could have been with Russia.

You are certifiable if you cannot understand that.

Rather than suggesting that I am a Russophile, how about you explain why you are terrified of the big boogeyman Russia or is it just Putin that makes you cry out in the night?

[higgmeister]

I think I mentioned to you a few years ago that I was a former USAF Tech Controller, so I know more than most the significance of your duty stations.   What a career!   You've been much closer to the matter, and I only had one Soviet awareness briefing so I'll trust your judgment.

I always thought it odd that back in the mid-1970s the Air Force Magazine had a front cover article about PAVE PAWS and then no one ever saw or heard anything about it until it showed up on Wikipedia.

[Alas Babylon!]

I love Tech control!!! Best dang troops in the Air Force! My Tech Controller friends in the Mountain was Lyle Smitson, Steve Siebert, Larry Brown, Lonnie, Gruber, George and a few more. I wish I could remember their full names.

Anyway, by 1970, the mountain was no longer safe. You probably knew that. We joked about it being the future Cheyenne lake!

Almost any hidy hole the enemy on either side had was a high priority target. In fact, rumor was Reagan give the coordinates of all the secret Soviet hideaways to Gorbachev in Rekyavik (Or after) in 1985. We said we might not kill you but we can seal you in. That’s what he meant by “You can run but you can’t hide.”

I’m sure Putin was told, too.

[rxh4n1]

“How would you like the Russians to respond? By sending NATO personnel back in body bags to their respective countries?”

That’s exactly what it wants. It wants our American kids to die for Ukraine. That’s the only way for Ukraine to win, if we do it for them.

[PIF]

Why? Having been 4 km from 4 Russian Shock Armies, Russian nuclear target, any given 15seconds to live, conversations in Russian with KGB officers, observed Spetsnaz ‘clean up’ of 30 Russian kids listening to Western music, etc.

[Svartalfiar]

It'll stop when the Russian troops leave Ukraine. NO, it won't. Don't lie.

Ok. Russian troops leave Ukraine. Who/where is the war gonna keep going?