Posted on 06/04/2024 5:48:26 PM PDT by ducttape45
Good evening Freepers. I got a question that I would love to find an answer to.
My father was a Korean War veteran. He served back in the 1940/50's. I have copies of two discharge forms, one is dated 1948 - 1953, the second one dated 1953 - 1956. The first one is an honorable discharge, but the second one is a dishonorable discharge.
I am confused as to how or why two 214's can be issued like that. I am also looking for an avenue to try and get the dishonorable one thrown out. Unfortunately the fire that took place in St. Louis destroyed all of the military records that would explain the reasoning, though one of my sisters thinks he decked an officer. LOL. If that happened, the officer probably deserved it.
The reason why I'd like to get the one tossed is because my mother can't get VA medical assistance because of it. If it can be tossed, it would help our family get her medical covered, maybe even find a better nursing home.
If there is someone out there who can help me I'd be much obliged. Thank you.
I just got an email from my representative and his office already submitted the inquiry. So we'll see what happens.
Don’t take this the wrong way, I’m just curious - why do you believe they should they upgrade his discharge? I understand mistakes sometimes happen, but that’s probably not the way to bet.
He never spoke about it to me, and my older sister has only scant memories. So before any of us kids start dying off I want to see if this chapter in his life can be brought to a proper closure and his image and reputation be "untarnished." Eight years in the Army, and during the Korean War, is a long time in service to one's country only for some Army officer to screw it up.
Bottom line, if the Army can't justify their decision, and if they have no records to justify it, then I want to see if they'll change it. Like I said, I know it's a long shot, but I would like to see my father's image and reputation restored.
I agree it would be cool if they can find his personnel jacket.
His Army records would have whatever disciplinary action received in detail. I expect a Dishonorable discharge has quite a lengthy paper trail. But … the 1973 fire at St. Louis records depository burnt up a lot of records. There might be something available, some of the records were converted or duplicated on microfiche.
The problem here, it isn’t on them to prove they were correct, the 214 speaks for itself. The burden of proof is on you to prove they were somehow mistaken. Without supporting evidence, what other conclusion could anyone come to, especially after some 70 years?
My grandfather served in the first world war, the one that was supposed to end all wars. I think we got rooked on that deal. Anyway, the US involvement was so haphazard at first, he deployed without really being “in” the Army. He wore a uniform, I’ve got his footlocker, but I don’t think he wore rank. They found out he could type - and that saved his ass. Instead of being assigned to Infantry, he was some REMF attache assigned to a Colonel or something. Nice gig in France, for him anyway.
After the war he tried to organize “veterans” like him without actual veterans status, politicking and writing letters to congress critters. He was unsuccessful in that regard.
Well you piqued my curiosity. I’d forgotten what they all mean, or how many there are.
I found a pretty good website (Lawforveterans.org) that lays out the different discharges, a DD is usually or often recieved in conjunction with serving time in a prison. Maybe Leavenworth would be of some assistance in this matter. Here are some of the possibilities, to achieve a Dishonorable Discharge:
Murder
Fraud
Desertion
Treason
Espionage
Rape
We're Irish, and my father had that Irish temper when we kids were growing up, but when he became a grandpa, then a great grandpa, wow did he become a big softy.
But back then, if he was somehow traumatized by something that happened on the battlefield, well, I dunno, but who knows, maybe he snapped. I just find it odd that his first DD214, which was for five years, was honorable, but the second one, which was for 28 months, was dishonorable. It doesn't make sense.
I sent a request to the NPRC for a copy of his military records. Guess we'll see if they shed any light on it.
Thanks for your help, and your kind words.
Yeah, I was reminded reading the information how big of a deal a DD is, loss of the right to vote, and no firearms, never mind GI Bill or veterans preference hiring, home loans. Did he find it difficult to get hired in the civilian world.
I’m guessing here, but it’s almost a certainty he spent at least a few years in the hoosegow - either a military prison like Leavenworth or a civilian prison. What was his MOS?
Thank you for contacting the National Personnel Records Center. The record needed to answer your inquiry is not in our files. If the record were here on July 12, 1973, it would have been in the area that suffered the most damage in the fire on that date and may have been destroyed. The fire destroyed the major portion of records of Army military personnel for the period 1912 through 1959, and records of Air Force personnel with surnames Hubbard through Z for the period 194 7 through 1963. Fortunately, there are alternate records sources that often contain information which can be used to reconstruct service record data lost in the fire; however, complete records cannot be reconstructed. All available documents are attached.
We are enclosing NA Form 13038, Certification of Military Service. This document verifies military service and may be used for any official purpose. A seal has been affixed to this document to attest to its authenticity. The information used to prepare the enclosed NA Form 13038 was obtained from an alternate record source.
This response was delivered electronically. A watermark of the NARA emblem has been digitally applied in lieu of a raised seal and may serve any official purpose. This watermark has been affixed to the separation document(s) to attest to its authenticity.
Along with the 13038, they also included recovered documents, of which there was very few and many of them have burn marks along the edges.
So, according to all available sources my father does NOT have a dishonorable discharge in his records, and where my sisters found the one they have is beyond me to explain. But now I have to convince my sister to pursue the VA to get benefits for my mother because she's afraid to confront the governmental bureaucracy sure to be thrown at her.
I’m very happy that your congress critter and NPRC at St. Louis came through for you and that they have issued a declaration of your father having a honorable discharge.
Now to get your sister shifted into gear to apply to the VA for help for your mother.
My sister, on the other hand, is saying that if my mother is granted VA benefits, she would lose her Medicare/Medicaid because she would make too much money, and that would financially put her into a big debt hole, thereby requiring for my sister to have to fork out funds on my mom's behalf out of her own pocket. Also, if my mother was able to keep her Medicare/Medicaid, AND get the VA benefits, then anything over $52 each month would be confiscated by the nursing home.
That's all mind-blowing crazy. If she just goes with what she gets from Medicare/Medicaid, and doesn't go over $52 in her bank account, she's fine. But if gets VA benefits, then the Medicare/Medicaid gets cut off, and the VA benefits wouldn't be enough to cover the shortfall.
Typical government idiocy.
This is an answer to prayer!! Now I will pray for your sister to have courage! We had many setbacks with my father’s records, though not as difficult as yours have been, they were still difficult. I am the sister with the most courage in my family. May your sister borrow mine. I will pray for the Holy Spirit to calm and guide her. Don’t give up!! This is for your Mama!!❤️ Don’t let the government get in your way! Keep pursuing this!
You don’t have to tell me about the Medicare/Medicaid “scam,” I had to deal with it during my mother’s last few years when she was in a nursing home.
It all feels so wrong. I can’t believe that trying to get more benefits for her, and more money, would actually make things worse. This is not how a person’s last days should go.
May God continue to go with you and your family on this quest!
Well, we'll continue to pray for you and your family, and God might sort out the government weasels for you.
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