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Historians: Tell me about President Calvin Coolidge?
FR ^ | Nov 19 | RandFan

Posted on 11/19/2023 7:29:31 PM PST by RandFan

Someone commented that Milei in Argentina is perhaps the MOST libertarian elected figure in the WORLD since Calvin Coolidge was elected president.

Can any FR historians tell me about Mr. Coolidge and his administration?

I want to know where I can get an unbiased account as you know from the usual sources it's impossible.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History
KEYWORDS: calvincoolidge; coolidge
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To: RandFan

Calvin Coolidge on the Declaration of Independence

https://mises.org/power-market/calvin-coolidge-declaration-independence


41 posted on 11/20/2023 8:59:28 AM PST by linMcHlp
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To: PGR88

“book by James Grant is the best on this “forgotten depression” which was reversed in a year - by Government doing nothing”

Tx; bkmk


42 posted on 11/20/2023 9:06:10 AM PST by linMcHlp
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To: RandFan
Calvin Coolidge came up in a time where it was considered dishonorable to stay in one government position for too long. Congressmen and Senators were expected to move up or move out rather than hang on into their senescence.

He also fought tooth and nail against the TVA. Imagine a president fighting against something like a program to bring electricity to the countryside. He felt it was the responsibility of the individual states to provide power to their citizens.

He eventually had to cave, but he did fight the good fight.

43 posted on 11/20/2023 9:13:57 AM PST by who_would_fardels_bear (What is left around which to circle the wagons?)
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To: RandFan; rlmorel

The Great Depression in Europe
https://history-groby.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/5/6/29562653/the_great_depression_in_europe.pdf

“Fuel” for a depression was in many locations around the world. The mechanism for bank failures - in succession - began with government excess spending of borrowed money.

“Hitler’s Banker,” a bio of Horace Greeley Hjalmar Schacht, explains the chain of events. IIRC, a Spanish bank collapse led to a fast reaction affecting others and Wall Street.

Something like that.


44 posted on 11/20/2023 9:30:53 AM PST by linMcHlp
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To: ProgressingAmerica; x; RandFan; nicollo
ProgressingAmerica: "Well, to be fair, TR's response was "I am a progressive Republican."
And it is true that he was so interested in oppressive national government at the expense of the states that he took a bullet to the chest and kept on speaking about how evil the states/federalism was.
Yeah. THAT speech."

I don't dispute that Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive Republican, I do dispute the "evil" part, meaning: people blame Teddy for all the evils committed by Progressive Democrats like Wilson and FDR.
Even though TR himself did none of those things, people say, "oh, but it was TR's legacy which enabled all the truly bad people to do all those truly bad things".

I'm saying, no, the real Republican legacy from all that turn of the century progressivism was the 1920s "return to normalcy" under Republicans Harding and Coolidge.

So, when I say "evil Progressive Republicans" allegedly included Teddy Roosevelt, it's not the Progressive part I'm calling "alleged", it's the "evil" part, because I think that includes blaming TR for bad things done by Progressive Democrats like Wilson and FDR.

45 posted on 11/21/2023 3:07:12 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: linMcHlp; RandFan; rlmorel
linMcHlp: "“Hitler’s Banker,” a bio of Horace Greeley Hjalmar Schacht, explains the chain of events.
IIRC, a Spanish bank collapse led to a fast reaction affecting others and Wall Street.
Something like that."

So far as I have ever seen, the ultimate in conspiracy theories comes from Guido Giacomo Preparata: Conjuring Hitler (c-2005), which accuses Brits and Americans of forcing the failure of Weimar and supporting Hitler's rise to power.

Part of the process was engineering the 1929 collapse of financial markets.
To understand it, first remember that the "roaring 20s" in Europe and American were largely fueled by reparations payments from the German Weimar Republic to the French and Brits who used those monies to repay loans from Americans.

Where did Weimar find the money to pay it's reparations?
Where else? Of course, they borrowed it from Americans.

But in 1929, for reasons I don't understand, Americans decided to stop loaning more money to Weimar and so Weimar stopped paying reparations to France and Britain, so the French & Brits quit repaying their loans to Americans and by now it is October 1929.

Anyway, that is part of Preparata's conspiracy theory for "Conjuring Hitler".

46 posted on 11/21/2023 3:26:49 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK; x; RandFan; nicollo; DiogenesLamp
"I don't dispute that Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive Republican, I do dispute the "evil" part, meaning: people blame Teddy for all the evils committed by Progressive Democrats like Wilson and FDR."

His is the concrete for which the foundation is laid. No, TR didn't give us the New Deal. Yeah, he did make it possible. If for no other reason, the financing. The Income Tax was a dead letter that was murdered and assassinated for pretty much all time by the SCOTUS ruling in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co. TR comes along and uses his cult of personality to revive it and sends out his henchman Taft to go make it a reality. 37 of the 38 states needed for ratification were already finished by the time Wilson is inaugurated.

Theodore Roosevelt is why we have the 16th Amendment. Singularly and wholly. April 15th is Dear Teddy Roosevelt day.

Do you go look at his actual political record? Or are you just looking at things, like well, he shot a lion? Cause his record of governance is way hard leftward. He is the originator of the deep state, he was the first globalist president, and large parts of the rest of the bureaucracy go back to him. He was also the first pen-and-phone president who went around congress to get what he wanted with the abuse of the executive order.

47 posted on 11/21/2023 8:08:58 AM PST by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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To: RandFan

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.

Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.

Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.

Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.

Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.

The slogan ‘Press On!’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

Calvin Coolidge


48 posted on 11/21/2023 8:27:11 AM PST by JZelle
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To: ProgressingAmerica
Theodore Roosevelt is why we have the 16th Amendment. Singularly and wholly. April 15th is Dear Teddy Roosevelt day.

William Howard Taft proposed, supported, and actively promoted the 16th Amendment. He saw that the country was going that way, and didn't want Congress and the Supreme Court to get into a tussle over the constitutionality of an income tax. It was also part of his plan to lower tariffs.

49 posted on 11/21/2023 11:47:30 AM PST by x
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To: x; nicollo
You forgot: ".....and sends out his henchman Taft to go make it a reality."

TR and Taft did not start disagreeing about left wing policies until late 1910 to 1911.

50 posted on 11/21/2023 10:01:04 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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To: x; BroJoeK; RandFan; nicollo

Specifically, the date is October 26, 1911 when the split became a big deal. There may have been some small issues that annoyed TR(perhaps many of them) but it was U.S. Steel that made TR’s head pop like a firecracker.

https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/case-study/approaching-presidency-roosevelt-taft

https://ehistory.osu.edu/exhibitions/1912/trusts/trtaft

When Taft proposed the income tax, that was an extension of TR’s left wing idealism.


51 posted on 11/21/2023 10:07:58 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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To: ProgressingAmerica; x; RandFan; nicollo
ProgressingAmerica: "His is the concrete for which the foundation is laid.
No, TR didn't give us the New Deal.
Yeah, he did make it possible."

Well... with that kind of logic, you could say Pres. Lincoln & Secretary Chase "made it possible" with their 1860s wartime income taxes.
Or you could say Pres. Madison & Secretary Dallas "made it possible" with their War of 1812 proposed income tax.
Or you could say George Washington "made it possible" by winning the Revolutionary War and chairing the 1787 Constitutional Convention.

Or you could even say Jesus Christ Himself "made it possible" by teaching us to love our enemies, not just fellow Christians.

With that kind of logic, you could blame anyone for anything, thus rendering the whole idea meaningless.

ProgressingAmerica: "If for no other reason, the financing.
The Income Tax was a dead letter that was murdered and assassinated for pretty much all time by the SCOTUS ruling in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co.
TR comes along and uses his cult of personality to revive it and sends out his henchman Taft to go make it a reality.
37 of the 38 states needed for ratification were already finished by the time Wilson is inaugurated."

OK... so let's begin with the 1894 Wilson-Gorman Tariff Act, which added the first peacetime income tax of 2%, struck down in 1895 by the Supreme Court in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co.
Both West Virginia Congressman Wilson and Maryland Senator Gorman were majority Democrats, as was the President, Grover Cleveland.
In 1894 the majority Democrats North, South and West, hated import tariffs, claimed they burdened the poor more than the wealthy and so supported this first peacetime income tax.
Republicans generally opposed.

After SCOTUS struck down Wilson-Gorman on Constitutional grounds in 1895, the matter was left to sit through the Republican administrations of McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt.
By 1909, with TR out of office and out of the country, some Republicans were beginning to fear gathering war-clouds in Europe and Asia, believing the US needed a stronger military to protect our foreign commerce and deter aggression.
In June 1909 Republican Pres. Taft requested and in July Congress passed the 16 Amendment, allowing income tax.

At that time, former Pres. Teddy Roosevelt was traveling in Africa and Europe.
I can find nothing to suggest that TR himself was instrumental in either proposing, passing or ratifying the 16th Amendment.
By July 1911 85% of the states needed for ratification had done so, long before TR had decided to run for President as a Bull Moose.
In the 1912 presidential election, all three candidates -- Wilson, Taft and Roosevelt -- supported ratification of the 16th Amendment, income tax.
It was ratified on February 3, 1913, at the beginning of Wilson's administration.

In 1914 Federal revenues increased around 25% over pre-income tax levels, but military spending remained at less than 1% of GDP until US entry into the First World War.

Bottom line: there's no doubt that Teddy Roosevelt was a "progressive" Republican, but that does not mean he is to blame for everything done after he was gone from power by other "progressives", especially Democrats.

ProgressingAmerica: "Theodore Roosevelt is why we have the 16th Amendment. Singularly and wholly.
April 15th is Dear Teddy Roosevelt day."

That's 100% pure nonsense.

ProgressingAmerica: "Cause his record of governance is way hard leftward."

Relative to other conservative Republicans of his time, TR was roughly where Donald Trump is today.

ProgressingAmerica: "He is the originator of the deep state..."

Only if by "deep state" you mean such government as the Food and Drug Administration and National Parks!

ProgressingAmerica: "...he was the first globalist president"

Only if by "globalist" you mean his advice to

I'd say those are good words of wisdom and accusations of Teddy Roosevelt being a "globalist" are meaningless and ridiculous.

ProgressingAmerica: "and large parts of the rest of the bureaucracy go back to him. "

No, only small parts of the:

  1. Food & Drug Administration
  2. Department of Commerce
  3. Department of Labor
  4. Federal Trade Commission
  5. DOJ Anti-Trust Division
  6. Inland Waterways Commission
I would accept as "Roosevelt's fault" the agencies, staffing levels and regulations in effect when TR was president.
Everything Democrats added afterwards is on them, not TR.

ProgressingAmerica: "He was also the first pen-and-phone president who went around congress to get what he wanted with the abuse of the executive order."

I've seen no evidence that anything Teddy Roosevelt did via executive order to establish national parks and reserves was in any way illegal.
To my knowledge, neither Congress, nor the courts, nor succeeding administrations permanently struck down such orders.

52 posted on 11/22/2023 4:57:19 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK; x; RandFan; nicollo
"Well... with that kind of logic, you could say Pres. Lincoln & Secretary Chase "made it possible" with their 1860s wartime income taxes."

That's not my logic. Read Herbert Croly. Or if you prefer, listen to it. The Lincoln that Progressives believe in doesn't exist. He's a figment of their imagination. https://librivox.org/the-promise-of-american-life-herbert-croly/

As for Roosevelt, he was a progressive. Progressives are progressives, there is a direct lineage. Taft was TR's right hand man. These are all direct lines of communication/contact.

There's no direct line, thus, not my logic.

"Or you could say"

I didn't throw mud at a wall as you did. There's a direct line from Taft to TR. Everybody knows it, as do you. Care to deny it?

"With that kind of logic"

Get my logic right, then you can claim my logic. Until then, that's your logic which should not be attached to me on my half against my will.

"After SCOTUS struck down Wilson-Gorman on Constitutional grounds in 1895, the matter was left to sit through the Republican administrations of McKinley and Teddy Roosevelt."

No, it was not left to sit. You do not know your history here. TR was so wired about it that he made it a feature in the December 3 1907 State of the Union address.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt%27s_Seventh_State_of_the_Union_Address

I'll make this easy for you as well. Here is the audio. https://librivox.org/state-of-the-union-addresses-by-united-states-presidents-1901-1908-by-theodore-roosevelt/

"I can find nothing to suggest that TR himself was instrumental in either proposing, passing or ratifying the 16th Amendment."

Then read the State of the Union Address. It's not like SOTU addresses are all that important. /sarc

He also called for the death tax in that same address. Because that's so conservative, right?

"Relative to other conservative Republicans of his time, TR was roughly where Donald Trump is today." and "Only if by "globalist" you mean his advice to...."

What a terrible insult to Trump, he did nothing to deserve this. TR was an actual globalist, stating:

Finally, it would be a masterstroke if those great powers honestly bent on peace would form a League of Peace, not only to keep the peace among themselves, but to prevent, by force if necessary, its being broken by others. The supreme difficulty in connection with developing the peace work of The Hague arises from the lack of any executive power, of any police power to enforce the decrees of the court.

Don't worry, I'll be making this Nobel address into an audiobook as well. I've had it with people who refuse to look at TR's actual record of progressivism and being an SJW. Teddy loved the Hague, this was not the only time he spoke of it so loftily as a center for world government.

I just don't understand why people keep their head in the sand about Theodore Roosevelt's ultra left wing political record.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1906/roosevelt/lecture/

"I've seen no evidence that anything Teddy Roosevelt did via executive order to establish national parks and reserves was in any way illegal."

I see what you did there. What about the rest of his pen-and-phone agenda? He did not author nearly 1100 executive orders exclusively on the parks.

But at least this one you knew, and you seem defensive about it. I think you instinctively know deep down that TR was ferociously left wing and make it a point to avoid his actual SJW record because the less you know the better.

That isn't going to fly anymore.

Who gave us the FBI?

Go ahead. Say it. Who gave us the FBI?

53 posted on 11/22/2023 8:39:50 AM PST by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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To: RandFan

bookmark. thx Rand.


54 posted on 11/22/2023 8:39:22 PM PST by dadfly ( )
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To: ProgressingAmerica; x; RandFan; nicollo
ProgressingAmerica: "That's not my logic.
Read Herbert Croly.
Or if you prefer, listen to it.
The Lincoln that Progressives believe in doesn't exist.
He's a figment of their imagination."

It's not clear what your point is here, so let me repeat mine.
Teddy Roosevelt did not invent the income tax or the 16th Amendment.
There were many before TR who proposed income taxes and many more after TR left office who made it happen.
Even Pres. Lincoln was not the first to propose a wartime income tax, that was Founding Father of the Constitution, Pres. James Madison, who needed more funds to pay for his War of 1812.

And the first peace-time income tax law was passed under supposedly "conservative" Democrats in Congress and Democrat Pres. Grover Cleveland.
Democrats wanted an income tax to replace US import tariffs, which Democrats always hated.

Bottom line: Teddy Roosevelt was only one actor among many, and far from lead character in this particular drama.

ProgressingAmerica: "As for Roosevelt, he was a progressive.
Progressives are progressives, there is a direct lineage.
Taft was TR's right hand man.
These are all direct lines of communication/contact.
There's no direct line, thus, not my logic."

Sorry, I'm not following your logic here.
That Teddy Roosevelt was a Progressive is not in disupte.
That TR deserves to be blamed for every bad thing other Progressives, notably Democrats, did, is very much what I'm challenging here.

ProgressingAmerica: "I didn't throw mud at a wall as you did.
There's a direct line from Taft to TR.
Everybody knows it, as do you.
Care to deny it?"

Sounds to me like you are changing the subject, maybe setting up a Straw Man argument?
There's no disputing that TR supported the 16th Amendment in the 1912 election, as did both Taft and Wilson.
But the fact remains that TR was both out of office and out of the country (in Africa) when Pres. Taft first proposed the 16 Amendment in 1909.
If TR had been the sole great champion of the income tax, he could have submitted the 16th Amendment to Congress while he was still President, but he didn't, which strongly suggests that TR was not the sole driving force behind the 16th Amendment, indeed, was not even the biggest force.

ProgressingAmerica: "Get my logic right, then you can claim my logic.
Until then, that's your logic which should not be attached to me on my half against my will."

I'll be sure to "get" whatever logic you use, but so far haven't seen any.
You can feel free to begin using logic whenever you want, don't hold back.

ProgressingAmerica: "No, it was not left to sit.
You do not know your history here.
TR was so wired about it that he made it a feature in the December 3 1907 State of the Union address."

There's no disputing that Progressive Republican Teddy Roosevelt supported an income tax.
And yet... and yet... TR did not submit the 16th Amendment to Congress in 1907 or 1908 when he could have.
Instead, Taft waited until 1909, when TR was both out of office and out of the country before submitting the 16th to Congress.

ProgressingAmerica: "Then read the State of the Union Address.
It's not like SOTU addresses are all that important. /sarc
He also called for the death tax in that same address.
Because that's so conservative, right?"

And yet... and yet... it was Taft in 1909, not TR in 1907 who submitted the 16th Amendment to Congress.

ProgressingAmerica: "What a terrible insult to Trump, he did nothing to deserve this.
TR was an actual globalist, stating:

Right off, I'd say there are at least couple of points to remember here:
  1. TR died in January, 1919, just days before the Versailles Peace Conference to end the First World War began, so TR never saw what Democrat Pres. Wilson made of his "League of Peace" idea.

  2. The whole idea of "globalism" is that it somehow puts foreign or international interests ahead of America's best interests.
    That's what Donald Trump's "Put America First" is intended to stop, and there is no conceivable way of claiming "Big Stick Diplomacy" under Teddy Roosevelt amounted to putting American interests last.

  3. Finally, Donald Trump defines what the term "anti-globalism" means in today's world and Trump himself has never called for the USA to leave the United Nations, or NATO, or any other alliance which promotes peace and protects American interests globally.
    Of course, Trump would never submit to any of the nonsense which routinely comes out of the United Nations these days, and we can be certain that neither would have Teddy Roosevelt.
ProgressingAmerica: "Don't worry, I'll be making this Nobel address into an audiobook as well.
I've had it with people who refuse to look at TR's actual record of progressivism and being an SJW.
Teddy loved the Hague, this was not the only time he spoke of it so loftily as a center for world government.
I just don't understand why people keep their head in the sand about Theodore Roosevelt's ultra left wing political record."

My impression is that for political purposes you are grossly misunderstanding and misrepresenting TR's views and actions.
So I'll say again, compared to true-blue Republican conservatives, or Rand Paul style libertarians, Donald Trump occupies roughly the same relative position as TR did in his time.

Indeed, that is one of the great secrets to Trump's success and why and how he can appeal to "working class" voters that traditional Republican conservatives and libertarians can never even touch.

So my bottom line is: you cannot be anti-Teddy Roosevelt without also being anti-Donald Trump.
Think about that before you go flying off on some ridiculous tangent to rewrite the history of one of the country's greatest Republican presidents.

55 posted on 11/23/2023 10:28:36 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK
"Teddy Roosevelt did not invent the income tax or the 16th Amendment."

Teddy Roosevelt was the necromancer who gave it new life; the income tax. It was dead.

"There were many before TR who proposed income taxes and many more after TR left office who made it happen."

Not in this instance. The timing is unmistakeable. TR was the Michael Jordan who drove the ball down the court, Taft was the Pippin who got the dunk.

"Even Pres. Lincoln was not the first to propose a wartime income tax, that was Founding Father of the Constitution, Pres. James Madison, who needed more funds to pay for his War of 1812."

Again. Progressives are progressives, there is a direct lineage. In bringing up Madison or Lincoln we might as well say that because Karl Marx proposed a progressive tax, well that proves Theodore Roosevelt who desired so badly a progressive tax (I linked the speech) that it proves Roosevelt was a Marxist.

There is a direct line between Taft and TR, and TR is the one who got the ball rolling. You aren't denying it, you're just throwing mud against a wall to hope it sticks.

"Bottom line: Teddy Roosevelt was only one actor among many, and far from lead character in this particular drama."

It is strange that you want to depart from TR's known larger-than-life persona and put on a facade here as if he is some meek guy around the corner who nobody has seen and nobody will ever hear from. This level of denial is astounding.

"That TR deserves to be blamed for every bad thing other Progressives, notably Democrats, did, is very much what I'm challenging here."

That's not the discussion here. You don't need to argue with other people using me as the focal point.

"But the fact remains that TR was both out of office and out of the country (in Africa) when Pres. Taft first proposed the 16 Amendment in 1909."

Obama used this excuse all the time too. Biden does daily as well.

You seem to be under the impression that Theodore Roosevelt was not a Movement Progressive. He was just some guy who wanted "progress", a little here a little there perhaps. But progress was pure and innocent.

Movements do not need their man every moment of every day, not when the income tax was a feature item of the State of the Union address as well as a continued priority throughout the years afterward. He does not have to be present every single moment.

"And yet... and yet... it was Taft in 1909, not TR in 1907 who submitted the 16th Amendment to Congress."

Without the necromancer, Taft doesn't submit in 1909. At the outset, in its first few years, Taft's presidency is very much considered as a continuation of TR's. Taft was TR's hand picked successor. I'll say that again. Taft was TR's hand picked successor. I just want to be sure. Taft was TR's hand picked successor. Make sure you cut and paste and respond to these six words. Taft was TR's hand picked successor. Items such as an income tax are a good reason why, trust busting is another. Generically speaking, Taft was very much the "good progressive" soldier when he first came out under Roosevelt's wings. It took a little time for that to change.

Taft was TR's hand picked successor. <---- TR expected progressivism from Taft, and to some extent, progressivism is exactly what TR got. They didn't split until 1911. Did you hear about the Income Tax in 1909? You know, that's before 1911. Just wanted to point that out.

"TR died in January, 1919, just days before the Versailles Peace Conference to end the First World War began, so TR never saw what Democrat Pres. Wilson made of his "League of Peace" idea."

It's irrelevant. TR doesn't ever once day "I support Wilson's plan for globalism". He just says "I support a plan for globalism"

"The whole idea of "globalism" is that it somehow puts foreign or international interests ahead of America's best interests."

That's the entire problem with progressives. They somehow think things like wealth redistribution and eugenics and price controls and never ending executive orders are indeed in America's best interests. Or social justice, as Roosevelt championed.

Or in this instance, the Hague. Sorry BroJoeK, but Theodore Roosevelt is wrong - The Hague is not in America's Best Interests.

"Finally, Donald Trump defines what the term "anti-globalism" means in today's world"

Today's world. You are not focused.

"My impression is that for political purposes you are grossly misunderstanding and misrepresenting TR's views and actions."

The reverse is true. You've already dropped discussion in regards to his gross abusive executive order agenda, and let's also not forget that TR was the first president in US history to implement price controls. If nothing else, during peacetime. But AFAIK, entirely the first.

"So I'll say again, compared to true-blue Republican conservatives, or Rand Paul style libertarians, Donald Trump occupies roughly the same relative position as TR did in his time."

Trump does not deserve such an insult. And I saw you refused to be a man and admit who gave us the FBI. It was Theodore Roosevelt. Who did Theodore Roosevelt's FBI attack? Donald Trump. It was Theodore Roosevelt's FBI who did this.

Stop insulting Trump with this Roosevelt garbage.

"So my bottom line is: you cannot be anti-Teddy Roosevelt without also being anti-Donald Trump."

It's a requirement. Trump governed as a federalist who many times got in trouble for staying out of the way of the states, such as COVID.

Teddy went out of his way to denigrate the states whenever he could both in policy and in speech, even to the point where he took a bullet and still got up and spewed hatred against the states. Have you even read that speech? Let me educate you here. After taking a bullet, Theodore Roosevelt said:

Now, the Democratic Party in its platform and through the utterances of Mr. Wilson has distinctly committed itself to the old flintlock, muzzle-loaded doctrine of States' rights, and I have said distinctly that we are for the people's rights. We are for the rights of the people. If they can be obtained best through the National Government, then we are for National rights. We are for the people's rights however it is necessary to secure them.

Teddy Roosevelt says it as plain as day. Those states? That's old hat. We need to get rid of that junk. The national government? That's the future. That's progress. We stand for bigger and bigger government. Do you know what the name of the speech was where Theodore Roosevelt proclaimed the primacy of ever expanding big government that was going to squash these got-awful states like a bug?

Progressive Cause Greater Than Any Individual

Now what kind of ugly big government filth does BroJoeK expect he will find in a speech that is titled to proclaim that progressivism and the progressivist cause is greater than any single individual American? And this is the man you compare to the great Donald Trump? It's terrible. It's just terrible.

Trump never proclaimed progressivism to be greater than any American. Trump proclaimed Americans to be greater than progressivism!!!

At the end of the day, Donald Trump did violence to Theodore Roosevelt's legacy. And America is better off for it. That even includes signature Theodore Roosevelt legislation. The Antiquities Act was signed in 1906. Guess who attacked it?

Teddy Roosevelt Is Rolling Over in His Grave

Donald Trump did violence to Theodore Roosevelt's legacy. And America is better off for it. Theodore Roosevelt was nothing more than a typical globalist progressive and he deserves all the scorn for his actual record.

56 posted on 11/24/2023 10:01:33 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica (The historians must be stopped. They're destroying everything.)
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To: ProgressingAmerica

Regarding Theodore Roosevelt, all I can say is that there’s plenty of blame to go around regarding who caused the income tax or progressive tax.

I will be quick to point out, however, that pushing for a progressive income tax in American history didn’t start with Roosevelt. In fact, the guy who actually voiced interest in it first was none other than Thomas Paine, and he actually was very contemptuous of the Bill of Rights (I believe he called it a “bill of wrongs”, if I recall correctly). And if Liberty the God that Failed by Christopher A. Ferrara and even Jefferson’s own library is to be believed, Jefferson himself actually pushed similar stuff as well.


57 posted on 12/25/2023 5:34:58 PM PST by otness_e
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To: ProgressingAmerica

You want to know who ELSE was ferociously left wing? Thomas Jefferson. Left-wing enough to constantly give support to the Jacobins even AFTER the September Massacres had the rest of the Founding Fathers turn against them (oh, and also despite getting a direct witness to the parade of body parts that was the Storming of the Bastille, he praised them, called them little different from the American War of Independence, and even played a direct role in the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen [which was also why he was one of the few founding fathers to NOT be involved in the Constitutional Convention, BTW]. This, BTW, was also why he and John Adams had their big falling out). In fact, I’d even argue Jefferson was a proto-TR in that sense.


58 posted on 12/25/2023 5:39:06 PM PST by otness_e
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To: RandFan; redangus; ClearCase_guy; devere; Jane Long; cowboyusa; Nextrush; Political Junkie Too; ...
I recently decided to treat this as a request and started up an effort to have Green's Life of Calvin Coolidge created as an audio book. I'll make another post once this work is complete.

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Life_of_Calvin_Coolidge/XR53AAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0

Calvin was a great man, and as president he was a progressive-defeater. Just the kind of presidents we need more of.

59 posted on 01/16/2025 4:39:20 PM PST by ProgressingAmerica (We cannot vote our way out of these problems. The only way out is to activist our way out.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Amity Schlaes wrote a good biography just a few years ago.

She also wrote an excellent biography of the New Deal, called The Forgotten Man. No doubt that WWII bailed out FDR economically.

60 posted on 01/16/2025 4:42:08 PM PST by Night Hides Not (Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad! Remember Gonzales! Come and Take It!)
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