[Reno89519]

Well, it’s very simple to me. Ukraine was never really an independent country, it’s been part of the Soviet Union for 70+ years and parts of other countries prior to that. Well, they were given independence, it never took, half their citizens wanted to rejoin Russia at one time or another, and yes, it fell back into a Civil War. The US would’ve encountered the same thing and our citizens wanted to re-join England after independence, but we didn’t. But I’ll give you credit, you and Reverend whatever have a lot of talking points collected ready to throw out whenever the opportunity arises. I hope you’re well paid for it.

[BroJoeK]

Reno89519: "Well, it’s very simple to me."

That's because your brain has been fried in Russian propaganda and now you can't think straight anymore.

Reno89519: " Ukraine was never really an independent country, it’s been part of the Soviet Union for 70+ years and parts of other countries prior to that."

By my count, there are 15 countries which spun off from the Old Soviet Union, three of which are already NATO members and many more of which want to join:

1. Armenia (seeking NATO membership since circa 2002)
2. Azerbaijan
3. Belarus
4. Estonia (NATO since 2004)
5. Georgia (seeking NATO membership since 2002)
6. Kazakhstan
7. Kyrgyzstan
8. Latvia (NATO since 2004)
9. Lithuania (NATO since 2004)
10. Moldova
11. Russia
12. Tajikistan
13. Turkmenistan
14. Ukraine (requested NATO membership after 2014 invasion)
15. Uzbekistan

In addition, there are half a dozen other countries formerly ruled over by the Old Soviet Union which are now, understandably, staunch NATO members:

1. Romainia
2. Slovakia
3. Czech Republic
4. Poland
5. Bulgaria
6. Hungary

There is also another list of countries less under the Soviet Union's jack-boots, but still eager to find protection within NATO.
North Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania, Croatia & Slovenia, not to mention now Finland & Sweden.

Reno89519: "Well, they were given independence, it never took, half their citizens wanted to rejoin Russia at one time or another, and yes, it fell back into a Civil War. "

Nonsense because no Ukrainian Oblast ever freely voted to join with Russia, and any Ukrainian who wanted to live under Russian rule was always free to move to Russia.
What's certain is that Ukraine's sovereign territories were recognized both internationally and by Russia itself many times, going back to Crimea in the 1950s.

That makes Russia's invasions of 2014 and 2022 both 100% illegal and inexcusable in the eyes of anyone not blinded from drinking the Russian propaganda Kool-Aid.

Reno89519: "The US would’ve encountered the same thing and our citizens wanted to re-join England after independence, but we didn’t."

It seems you've forgotten about the War of 1812, when the Brits did attempt to restore their own sovereignty or influence over at least some of the United States -- to include burning down Washington, DC!!
It didn't work and similar efforts by Russia in Ukraine will also not work.

Reno89519: "But I’ll give you credit, you and Reverend whatever have a lot of talking points collected ready to throw out whenever the opportunity arises.
I hope you’re well paid for it."

Nobody I know of is paid here, but how crazy would you have to be to post Russian propaganda lies over and over without being paid for your efforts?