Posted on 11/13/2023 9:01:46 AM PST by Red Badger
“. And flying aircraft doesnt really translate into understanding the rather odd world of momentum management “
Flying aircraft is all about momentum management!
Having thousands of hours of my own in everything from Cesspool One Filthy’s to transport category jets, I can safely tell you that it ain’t the same as trying to work in a zero g environment with no cues around you to let you know why your body is doing things that don’t make sense.
Read the history of the difference between Grissom and Aldrin in the first EVA’s on Gemini.
And apparently all that time the two AA Noobs spent in the pool or the vomit comet didn’t help cuz uh...they dropped the box. Or ball, if you will. That’s real history in the making. Maybe one of them was Callsign Revlon?
“Having thousands of hours of my own in everything from Cesspool One Filthy’s to transport category jets, I can safely tell you that it ain’t the same as trying to work in a zero g environment with no cues around you to let you know why your body is doing things that don’t make sense.”
Are you saying you are a pilot but don’t believe pilots experience spatial disorientation? WOW!
Why no, I didn’t say that. You did.
“I can safely tell you that it ain’t the same as trying to work in a zero g environment with no cues around you to let you know why your body is doing things that don’t make sense.”
How do you get that experience? You go through training. These gals went through that training.
What you said: “... , I can safely tell you that it ain’t the same as trying to work in a zero g environment with no cues around you to let you know why your body is doing things that don’t make sense.”
That is a pilots world. Having to ignore misleading sensations.
You’ll note that their training was acknowledged but it apparently didn’t do much for them. They still made basic mistakes.
Training is followed by IOE, otherwise known as Initial Operation Experience. It’s true of all professions. If you want to be a mechanic on space vehicles, you have to have IOE and more experience before you are let loose on the important things. The problem with AAA’s - Affirmative Action Astronauts - is that they don’t have that.
This was demonstrated as I said on Gemini. Grissom barely made it back into the capsule alive, out of breath, overdue, tired and running out of O2. He didn’t understand the dynamics of simple operations in zero g like operating any tool requiring torque. And Grissom was a test pilot just like our erstwhile AAA’s. Aldrin by contrast wrote his dissertation at MIT on orbital mechanics of rendezvous and was well aware of the issues.
https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/12652
His mission (Gemini 12) was characterized by no mistakes, no drama, wide margins on time and O2 use.
And the training since then replicates and expands on Aldrin’s success. But it’s just training. You have to have experience, and that experience is different from what a decent airplane operator (”pilot”) does, or experiences. More like a fusion of a mechanic and an astrodynamics engineer. Which is why they’re called Mission Specialists, not Pilots.
Where did you get all your zero-g expertise?
Grissom was an AAA?
The misleading sensations you refer to - mistaking a 1g turn for a climb in IMC - are taught at a basic level. Even for private pilots. Still doesn’t prepare you for a world where simply pushing off a pedestal with a little too much force means you end up orbitally regressing away from the vehicle.
Facts is facts. They dropped the box on first try.
You can get zero g expertise in many places. In a pool, jumping off a tower, jumping out of an airplane, flying in an airplane in certain attitudes, all sorts of things. There are simulators for all of it.
It helps if you understand central force motion though. And the fundamental definition of a momentum vector.
” Still doesn’t prepare you for a world where simply pushing off a pedestal with a little too much force means you end up orbitally regressing away from the vehicle.”
Mechanics certainly aren’t prepared for that!
So, how do they find people that that have zero-g experience?
Recruit only sky divers?
“You can get zero g expertise in many places. In a pool, jumping off a tower, jumping out of an airplane, flying in an airplane in certain attitudes, all sorts of things. There are simulators for all of it.”
So now you agree that piloting DOES provide preparation. Thanks for the 180!
As to the pool, one is a certified scuba diver so we can give a +1 for that.
As usual, you attempt to put words in other people’s mouths.
You can get expertise doing many things...and you need other elements as well. Which you CAN’T get by simply doing ONE thing only. Like JUST being a mechanic, or JUST being a pilot, or JUST being an astrodynamicist. You gotta do ALL of that, and more - helps to be a bit of an electrician, for example. Don’t need to be a PhD EE, it’s not the same skill set. Just being an elec tech is more relevant.
As for “how to get such experience”, well, chicken/egg, that’s been the problem for the last 60 years. But guys like Buzz Aldrin and Ox Van Hoften solved it. You tell me why.
“As usual, you attempt to put words in other people’s mouths.”
I can go back for exact quotes if you insist.
You first said being a pilot did nothing to prepare one for zero-g and then you said it did.
Sorry lady, no time to play argument games with you.
You obviously have nothing else to do with your time.
Fact is, your precious AAA’s screwed up, and did it in front of the entire planet.
PS, you still haven’t told me why Ox and Buzz made it work.
There’s a reason. You tell me. But just a hint: I already know.
And as an example of a rather unique, but ideal, candidate, you can read the bio of Drew Feustal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._Feustel
Note his mixed technician/academic/engineering background, leading to success on EVA missions.
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