Posted on 11/13/2023 6:54:31 AM PST by ganeemead
Unconditional Surrender more or less
Title is a mess.
Won’t be “ukraine” surrendering. It will be NATO ($120 billion) and EU ($80 billion) surrendering. Quite a large difference.
Title is a mess..
Only here to repeat what you said.
So very many guru’s whose expertise derives only . . . ONLY . . . from viewcount.
Negotiations are nearly impossible to envision. No one will believe anything promised by the other side, so no negotiations. The truism that war only ends at the negotiating table was never really true, and we will likely see that shown in Ukraine.
I remain persuaded that a military coup in Ukraine will execute all CIA and MI6 people there, maybe including Zelensky, and then withdraw all troops from Donbas and more. That is the most likely outcome.
There will be no negotiations. A junta will take power, throw out the US and UK, execute anyone opposing their power, and talk with the Russians only about prisoner exchange.
The millions of refugees will not return. They were never going to, anyway.
No negotiations. No surrender. Gunfire will end because whatever Ukraine troops remain alive will be withdrawn and mustered out of uniform. Governance by junta will go on 5-10 years. Relations with Russia will normalize. The only talk with the EU will be about fees for gas transit. With the US and UK, none.
One daring European NATO former official suggested that Ukraine be offered NATO membership ….but without the Donbass or Crimea.
Doubt it.
Probably Russia will have both NATO and the UN recognize the four heavily Russian districts of Ukraine as Russian. If they don’t, Russia will take Odessa and cut off Ukraine’s access to the sea. Then Poland will probably make western Ukraine a de facto protectorate while kiev and central Ukraine attempts to rebuild with a now disinterested western capital investors. Russia will also demand no NATO or no NATO weapons in Ukraine.
Russia will then fortify the line of these new districts and use western Ukraine as a further buffer.
Then they’ll have to clean a half million ukrainian men off the ground who died for nothing.
It’s intentional. The poster is Putin fan
Inconceivable.
Both parties in the US are heavily invested. There can’t be anything that looks like surrender because of the optics. They will allow no surrender. All those CIA and MI6 people on site will be just as willing to execute Zelensky as anyone else would be.
The Ukrainian senior military are classmates of the Russian senior military. They went to the same military courses at Russian universities. You may have some junior officers who studied at US or UK universities, but 9 years from 2014 is just not enough time for them to rise to field grade ranks.
So the generals are acquainted. They don’t need to negotiate anything. They know how logistics work. The Russians know Zelensky has been forced to ignore his military leadership. They won’t blame them.
That’s the highest probability of how it ends. Coup in Kiev, execution of western intelligence agents there (who make no mistake here, every single day are looking for a coup, which is why they must be executed, they are a major obstacle) and withdraw of forces back to barracks in Kiev or Lvov or both.
The Russian satellites will see what is happening. They don’t need any formal messaging. It will be clear the junta has power.
Really, the only obstacle to this is the western intelligence people, who are likely heavily armed.
You and your ilk are delusional, crazy and a danger to the well-being of every American citizen.
NATO is backed into a corner. Winter is approaching and most of the Ukraine soldiers are old conscripts. Either the Ukrainian military breaks down or Russia slowly moves west until the embarrassment becomes unbearable. No idea what happens after that, but the only alternative to giving Russia what they want is thermonuclear war, of flipping the chess table.
Might wanna move to Argentina.
NATO is backed into a corner. Winter is approaching and most of the Ukraine soldiers are old conscripts. Either the Ukrainian military breaks down or Russia slowly moves west until the embarrassment becomes unbearable. No idea what happens after that, but the only alternative to giving Russia what they want is thermonuclear war, of flipping the chess table.
Might wanna move to Argentina.
They are on day 1.100 (or so) of their two week campaign.
There’s no men left on the Ukrainian side. That’s the problem. It’s just reality.
I’m not a fan of Putin either, but I’m definitely not fans of Nuland and her mission to kill every Ukrainian male possible.
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