None of that us true. In fact, the U.S. has officially guaranteed Ukrainian security since the Budapest agreement in 1994 -- almost 30 years ago, under Pres. Clinton.I am going to be polite and explain my point of view. Here’s a bit of a civics lesson. 1.) The Budapest Memorandum is not a treaty. 2.) It is not a document that can even be ratified by Congress. 3.) If you take the time to read the Budapest Memorandum you will find that there is only one requirement of the U.S. in regards to Ukraine. That is refer any aggression to the United Nations. 4.) Ergo, it is a meaningless document because the United Nations does not set U.S. foreign policy. Read that as abdicating foreign policy to a proxy in a document that has no basis under the U.S. Constitution.
Defense obligations to foreign nations are made by treaties. The Constitution sets a very high bar to enter a treaty. It is one of the many checks and balances. What individuals promise, particularly Presidents, are meaningless without the consent of the people’s representatives. In this case, a meaningless promise by Clinton and the State Department doesn’t mean shit. Even following the obligation detailed in the Budapest Memorandum is meaningless. The UN is not capable of defending anyone. And then there is the little, itty bitty problem that Russia has a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. Granted, Clinton and the State Department were hideously stupid at foreign policy, but they are not so stupid to know the UN would do nothing tangible in regards to the Budapest Memorandum. The Budapest Memorandum has zero standing at the UN and even if it did, Russia has their veto.
Perhaps you can explain to me why Zeepers like you love to cite unconstitutional memorandum from Democrats and the deep state as a reason to waste billions of dollars that we don’t have. Why is it that Zeepers like you follow the lead of Democrat Presidents, like pedophile Joe Biden? Why do you think America needs to send aid and weapons to nations around the world when there has been no tangible and positive affect for everyday Americans that actually pay the bills?
I don’t care if it is George W. Bush, Donald Trump, Obama, Biden or Clinton. Individual Presidents have be carrying on the foreign policy objectives of the unelected administrative state at the State Department and the Pentagon for my entire life. I do not care if aid and weapons have been given to the world for decades. Time does not make it right. It is not right today just because it happened in the past.
Every interest you list as an American interest in Ukraine is not an American interest. Let’s take them one by one:
1.) Relative to Russia, Ukraine is the more genuine constitutional democracy, is less corrupt or ruled over by a murderous dictator.
I don’t give a chit about Democracy. Democracies are antithetical to the American Republic. Ukraine being less corrupt than Russia is not an American interest. American interests have tangible, positive impacts on everyday American lives. Spending American tax dollars on two corrupt nations at war does not improve one hardworking American’s life. It contributes to inflation and makes Americans debt slaves.
2.) Ukrainians love Europe, the EU and NATO more than Russians ever did. Ukrainians want to be independent Europeans, not slaves to Asian Russians.
Love for Europe, the EU and NATO is not an American interest. Even if that was the case, you are incorrect about that love. The Russian speaking eastern provinces in Ukraine do not share that love. By the way. I do not love Europe, the EU and NATO. They all act against the interests of American taxpayers every single day. I find the idea of using emotions as the basis of foreign policy as being completely hideous. It lacks all critical thinking.
3.) In 1994 the USA formally guaranteed Ukrainian sovereignty in the Budapest Memorandum.
I have already converted that. Maybe Biden could actually fulfill our non-responsibility from a meaningless, non treaty and refer the Ukraine-Russian matter to the United Nations. The Budapest Memorandum is not an American interest. It does not change any American’s life in any way.
4.) Ukraine was invaded, unprovoked, by Russians, twice now, in 2014 and again in 2022. No western country recognises the legitamacy of Vlad the Invader's "Special Military Operations".
Stating that Russia’s, or any other country’s, aggression as an American interest is not American interest. There needs to be something in Ukraine that positively impacts American lives to be an interest. That “something” needs to be significant. What does Ukraine have that we so desperately cannot live without. What do and have the Ukrainian people do on behalf of the American people that affects our lives in such a significant way that we neglect our own problems and go deeper in debt?
As for no western county recognizing Russian legitimacy, that is not an American interest. Who really cares about what other countries think in determining what is good for America. If those other counties’ interests are so abused, then they should use their tax dollars and their weapons to fight Russia. They are much closer to the problem.
5.) Vlad's invasion is not just a "one-of" exception, rather it's his normal behavior towards virtually all his neighbors, including Georgia and Moldova invaded plus a long list of others he's threatened.
That’s not an American interest. Moldova and Georgia are not American interests. 95+% of Americans can’t find them on a map. There are no treaties with them. They do nothing for America.
You need to be consistent in principles. Each year there are tens of military actions in the world where an aggressor nation attacks another. The vast majority of these conflicts have little or nothing at stake for Americans. Russia’s aggression against Georgia and Moldova obviously did not require response from our government since their are no American interests. How is that any different than the tens of other nations embroiled in conflict and Ukraine? Shouldn’t we be consistent and get involved in every conflict in the world? C’mon, let’s choose sides and invent American interests in every conflict. We need to be consistent in our principles.
All of these are none of our business. Every one of these would be a waste of American tax dollars and have a negative impact on our economy and degrade the strength of our military. Yes, sending Ukraine our weapons degrades our military’s strength.
6.) There is a new "Axis of Evil" growing ever more powerful in the world, beginning with Vlad the Invader and the CCP's Xi-snake, and including Little Kim and the Moolah Mullahs plus others. All are aggressive, brutal dictators only constrained by the U.S. and our allies' strengths -- military, economic, political and social. All can smell weakness, fear and disunion amongst us and will move aggressively against us the moment they believe we are too weak to stop them.
You are partly correct. However, it was our support of Ukraine that drove Russia into a stronger alliance with China. It was NATO expansion of nations that border of Russia that made Russia act rationally and seek allies elsewhere.
Just imagine having Russian or Chinese military bases in Mexico. Given that you are such a proponent of American security, as I am, you would not tolerate those military bases.
Throughout the entire Cold War, there were non NATO buffer nations between Western Europe and Russia. That worked out pretty well considering the Soviet Union fell and there was not a hot war. But after the end of the Soviet Union fell, the West, particularly Europe, did little to improve relations with Russia and bring Russia back into the European theater of interest. Europe continued to engage in Cold War behavior and expanded NATO. NATO is a military alliance. NATO since its inception has been a military threat to Russia. We didn’t ease tensions with a fallen Soviet Union. We increased them. NATO expansion means military bases closer to Russia. It is provocative in the same way a Russian or Chinese military base would be in Mexico.
That was America fault, because America is the primary funder of NATO, that was intimidating a defeated enemy instead of trying to diplomatically bring Russia into alliance with the West.
American foreign policy decisions are NOT always correct just because they are American. There are many forces at play and the least of which are everyday Americans, whose interest should trump all others. Continuing to make foreign policy mistakes like supporting Ukraine drives Russia into unnatural alliances with nations such as China. That falls directly under the category of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We are Russia’s enemy because we didn’t do the right things following the fall of the Soviet Union. It’s our own damn fault that Russia and China are closer. It seems like no one did the math because they were so intent on getting filthy rich by the prospect of doing business in China. And somehow China was our friend. That math here is keeping as few fighting aged men not aligned with China. Russia is a huge source of fighting aged men.
You don’t keep them unaligned through war. It is done through diplomacy. It’s done through finding mutual interests. It is done by establishing trust, one step at a time. We have done the opposite and have doing so from the fall of the Soviet Union when Russia was in abject shambles and was completely weak militarily. We doubled down on a nonexistent threat instead of mending relations at time when Russia was wanting to have greater positive engagement with the West.
7.) Ukraine is only one place among many we've been challenged. If we fail in Ukraine, each new challenge will become that much more difficult to defeat. That is the lesson taught in the deaths of millions after the 1930s, and should not ever need re-teaching.
Your premise is completely incorrect. We have not been challenged in Ukraine. It is only the insistence by neocons and people like you that imagine there are American interests in Ukraine.
Back your time line up on the death of millions. It was prior to the 1930’s. It occurred in Wilson’s War, and before that. The death of millions, proportionally to world population, has been occurring since the beginning of history. It is not the excuse to wage war to kill millions more.
Direct to that point, by America fighting a proxy war with Russia with Ukraine has cost the death and permanent crippling of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian. You don’t want death, but you cause death because you imagine non-existent American interests in Ukraine. This war would have long been over without American involvement. It could have never occurred if NATO dissolved after the fall of the Soviet Union.
In fact millions of people would not have been killed or injured if the U.S. acted in behalf of real American interests instead of imaginary American interests. There would have not been a Korean War. There were no American interests in Korea. There would have not been a Vietnam War. There were no American interest in Vietnam. There would not have been the forever wars of the last couple of decades. Yes, even the War on Terror was a complete waste of American tax dollars and lives. Our government did nothing to eliminate terrorism. In fact, they have done many things that have reduced Americans’ freedoms and security. We were lied to about weapons of mass destruction just enter yet another conflict that did nothing to eliminate terrorism.
9/11 was an immigration problem. Those hijacking terrorists should never have been in America.
Personally, I never viewed Saudi Arabia or any other ME country beside Israel as being a friend. They are antithetical to our culture and interests. They should never have been allowed to visit or immigrate to America.
American interests start at home, here on U.S. soil. They begin with our freedoms. They begin with our economy. But neocons look outwards for imaginary American interests to fuel the Military Industrial Complex instead of solving problems at home where we actually have American interests. That needlessly kills and injures Americans. It reduces our freedoms. It makes us less secure. It makes us debt slaves.
Our nation’s leaders and military cannot walk and chew gum. You cannot identify any major war that we have won since WWII. You cannot say we have greater freedom today than in the past. You cannot argue how America has a culture that is notin decline. Every major institution in America is being destroyed by leftist freaks and somehow neocons think those institutions are going to make wise decisions in the interest of Americans.
Our most pressing problems are right here in America and they need to solved before doing a damn thing in places where there are no American interests. Our Constitution does not grant any power making our government the world’s cop. For the life of me I cannot understand why neocon are so insistent on trying to be the world’s cop particularly so many failures and defeats. It is the definition of insanity.