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Elections Are Bad for Democracy
Dynuz ^

Posted on 08/22/2023 8:53:35 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe

On the eve of the first debate of the 2024 presidential race, trust in government is rivaling historic lows. Officials have been working hard to safeguard elections and assure citizens of their integrity. But if we want public office to have integrity, we might be better off eliminating elections altogether.

If you think that sounds anti-democratic, think again. The ancient Greeks invented democracy, and in Athens many government officials were selected through sortition — a random lottery from a pool of candidates. In the United States, we already use a version of a lottery to select jurors. What if we did the same with mayors, governors, legislators, justices and even presidents?

(Excerpt) Read more at dnyuz.com ...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS:
Originally from NYT, and that is the actual headline.

One big flaw sits at the heart of the author's article: who chooses the pool from which to draw?

After all, it works so well in DC and NYC for juries (re: Donald Trump)....

The problem the 'elites' really have is people's self determination. If only 'those people' were out of the way....

1 posted on 08/22/2023 8:53:35 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: Tench_Coxe

Garbage!


2 posted on 08/22/2023 8:58:57 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Tench_Coxe
"Officials have been working hard to safeguard elections and assure citizens of their integrity."


3 posted on 08/22/2023 9:00:24 AM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Tench_Coxe
No, democracy is bad for elections.

We have proven that any idiot can vote. Good thing we live in a representative republic that has an electoral college.

4 posted on 08/22/2023 9:02:11 AM PDT by pfflier
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To: Tench_Coxe

The issue is not “democracy” - never was, is not now, nor never will be.

The issue is our FREE CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC created by the U.S. Constitution which is maybe the greatest political and legal document ever created and which despite the ongoing Leftist insurrection, is the Supreme Law of the Land (US Const., Art. VI, Cl. 2).


5 posted on 08/22/2023 9:03:30 AM PDT by Jim W N (MAGA by restoring the Gospel of the Grace of Christ (Jude 3) and our Free Constitutional Republic!)
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To: Tench_Coxe; All
The efforts to keep Trump off the ballot is an attack on democracy.

Al Gore’s pal Lawrence Tribe argues it can and must be done. For his part, Dershowitz (who was part of Bush vs Gore) has ridiculed the Georgia case and says keeping Trump off the ballot is unconstitutional. He says they also planned alternative slates of electors but the SCOTUS decision mooted that.

Newsom is asking the legislature to keep Trump off the ballot in California. Why would Trump be able to win in the People’s Republic of California?

Documents case is the toughest case for Trump.

6 posted on 08/22/2023 9:03:40 AM PDT by newzjunkey ("Listless vessel" -- We need a better Trump than Trump in 2024)
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To: Tench_Coxe

America has been “Selecting vs Electing” for decades. Very few offices have fair elections ……


7 posted on 08/22/2023 9:12:46 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (The enemy has US surrounded. May God have mercy on them.)
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To: Tench_Coxe; All

When Rush first started to predict that they were going to just stop the idea of voting I thought that would be one of the predictions that wouldn’t happen. I guess he saw something way back when. They haven’t made it official but O now see a very reasonably path to that end.


8 posted on 08/22/2023 9:13:41 AM PDT by wiseprince (Me)
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To: Tench_Coxe

I am working on an opinion article about what “Our Democracy” means - but since I may never finish it, the TL;DR is: “our democracy” means a pointless struggle between two groups, both hostile to the majority in this country, designed to make sure voters never achieve self-government and to make sure no truly popular political movement ever emerges.


9 posted on 08/22/2023 9:14:45 AM PDT by Jim Noble (He who saves the nation breaks no law)
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To: wiseprince

Rush was right again. I remember his predictions that the dims wouldn’t campaign and win anyway. They don’t want to deal with those pesky elections and deal with people out in fly over country.


10 posted on 08/22/2023 9:15:22 AM PDT by Texas resident (We are living through Barak's fundamental transformation)
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To: newzjunkey
Why would Trump be able to win in the People’s Republic of California?

Winning doesn't matter. What matters is that Trump got 4.5 million votes in California in 2016, and keeping his popular vote total down in 2024 is important to Democrats, for various reasons.

11 posted on 08/22/2023 9:17:30 AM PDT by Jim Noble (He who saves the nation breaks no law)
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To: Tench_Coxe

The idea of political offices being filled by random selection has been suggested before. Aside from the question of who sets the qualifications for the candidate pool, an even greater problem is who actually would be running things. It would be the unelected advisers, bureaucrats, “experts”, etc., far more than even the shadow government that we have today. No, thanks.


12 posted on 08/22/2023 9:19:45 AM PDT by HartleyMBaldwin
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To: pfflier

“Good thing we live in a representative republic that has an electoral college.”

I can riddle that with two states and their voting history, New York and California.

wy69


13 posted on 08/22/2023 9:22:16 AM PDT by whitney69
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To: Tench_Coxe

.


14 posted on 08/22/2023 9:34:19 AM PDT by sauropod (I will stand for truth even if I stand alone.)
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To: Jim Noble
This country was never designed to have “democratic elections” on a national scale. Go back through history and notice the great efforts made by our founders to MINIMIZE the role of popular elections in the Federal government.

U.S. Senators weren’t elected in every state until the 20th century.

In the 1792 presidential election, only 6 of the 15 states selected their presidential electors through a popular vote. For the other 9 states, the electors were appointed by the state legislatures or governors.

The founders of this nation wouldn’t have bothered fighting for their independence if they knew they’d end up with a government where every mouth-breathing moron could vote.

15 posted on 08/22/2023 9:42:42 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (“Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.”)
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To: whitney69
I can riddle that with two states and their voting history, New York and California.

If you take both of those states with a popular election, they will almost always determine the outcome of an election regardless of what voters the other states decide.

16 posted on 08/22/2023 9:50:28 AM PDT by pfflier
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To: Alberta's Child
This country was never designed to have “democratic elections” on a national scale

Yes, of course I know that and agree - but every time someone says "our democracy", they are specifically talking about schemes to limit the franchise by limiting choices to "approved" parties which are committed to choosing only "approved" candidates - and I know you know that.

17 posted on 08/22/2023 10:12:42 AM PDT by Jim Noble (They don't think you know but I know that you do.)
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To: pfflier

An electoral college that can’t be certified with integrity by corrupt politicians.


18 posted on 08/22/2023 10:17:17 AM PDT by DownInFlames (P)
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To: PIF

Is the headline channeling jonah goldberg?


19 posted on 08/22/2023 10:54:02 AM PDT by DPMD (ua)
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To: pfflier

“If you take both of those states with a popular election, they will almost always determine the outcome of an election regardless of what voters the other states decide.”

You aren’t far from wrong. The election is not decided by the popular vote. It is decided by an assignment of electors in their electoral college in different ways for their outcome. The feds have very little to do with the election itself, just to verify the outcome. When congress receives the information from the states for January 6, they don’t count the popular vote, just the electors. And there is no consistent assignment of electors in each state. Some go with the percentages by having an amount for each party’s general votes. Some give all their electors away to the winning party whether by one vote or one million. Others like Nebraska and Maine don’t give them to one candidate or break them down. There is no consistency.

So if the two candidates are even one vote apart, only one gets the state’s electoral votes. I see a problem with that as it makes it too easy to have mistakes or intentional changes and disenfranchise half the state. This is why the 2020 was being contested. And no one would ask the question if it could have been done and to look at it. When they looked, they found screwups all over the place that could have changed the outcome. But we’ll never know will we? If you can’t find the facts by not allowing the investigation, then is it worth the money and time to elected a leader. This is what we left in England from kings and queens. The colonies recognized that in the early 1770’s.

wy69


20 posted on 08/22/2023 6:04:14 PM PDT by whitney69
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