Posted on 07/27/2023 11:31:24 AM PDT by ganeemead
Doug MacGregor: Fops and wankers staring into the abyss.....
I am not a fan of the Ukraine war funding by the US.
OTOH, I don’t buy the “we pushed Russia too hard.” Russia in the past several years has invaded several countries several times, all of which seem to recover territory they lost when the Soviet empire disintegrated. Ukraine looks like the next step. The Soviets are the obvious aggressor with no excuse except that they want to rebuild the Soviet empire borders.
Europe is threatened by this. We are not.
Europe is wealthy and well armed. And if they were to make a small effort, could overwhelm a depopulated and poor Russia when the stakes got high enough.
I regard this as Europe’s problem, which they can easily solve.
For more than 500 days MacGregor has said the same thing every week. “Russia has destroyed Ukrainian military and it’ll take a week or two to mop things up”.
It is very hard to understand what goes on in the minds of people who still keep posting him saying the same thing proven wrong over and over again.
At risk of sounding like a neocon, I tend to agree with you on this. I don’t understand the whole “NATO scared us into conquering more territory” argument by Russia. I mean, did Europe scare Hitler into taking it over in the late 30s?
Maybe my understanding isn’t nuanced enough.
Europe is not prepared for war. They sold their soul for socialism, trusting that the US would always be a willing servant.
They are not prepared, I suspect. Who are they going to send, white people, to reduce their numbers relative to the Third Worlders or the Third Worlders who have no loyalty to their adopted countries?
Europe defeated itself through socialism.
Notice that the NATO member Finland escapes Russian concern.
If Ukraine is in the driver’s seat, why does Zelensky keep begging for more weapons and money from the U.S.?
Ukraine is not winning this conflict. A blind man can see that.
When Ukraine keeps asking for more weapons (F-16s and artillery shells), Ukraine is admitting their enemy (Russia) has more weapons. What Ukraine is doing is to deny Russia a quick (war that lasts less than one year) victory. I will wait for Ukraine to stop asking for more weapons and Russia to openly ask China for weapons before I say Ukraine is winning this war.
Maybe my understanding isn’t nuanced enough.
The Russian logic is that upon introduction to NATO Ukraine would then host foreign militaries (read: US) and be able to put weapons on Moscow’s doorstep. The Russians oppose this with the same logic that the U.S. opposed Soviet weapons being posted on our doorstep in Cuba.
The neocons deliberately maneuvered the Russians into firing the first shot, and they’ve obliged. Now the neocons will proclaim the horrors of the invasion their quest for NATO expansion deliberately provoked (decades of commentary from diplomats from many nations, including our own, understood that Russia would view Ukrainian ascension to NATO as a hostile act), and respond accordingly.
Except that Russia took Crimea away from Ukraine by force years ago.
So even though I don’t recall a lot of cries for Ukraine to join NATO before last year, it would be understandable why they’d want protection from Russia.
In other words, I can understand Russia doesn’t want NATO right all up in Moscows face on the eastern part of Ukraine, but maybe they didn’t have to go and take Crimea either!
This conflict is so dumb. Let HcatGPT settle it, draw new borders at the Dneiper or whatever, and focus on repelling the African-Islamic invasion of Europe. They should be using those missiles to target every boat that approaches Greece or Italy.
Ukraine has been winning and they know what winning slower costs. At every settlement they liberate from the Russians they find mass graves and torture chambers.
Helping Ukraine to win faster saves people from torture and murder and if signalled right convinces Putin to find a “Mission Accomplished” excuse instead of still trying to hang on to a losing cause.
The opposite - allowing Russia some sort of win - means that they’re just going to retry after gathering strength and every other aggressive country in the world will see this as allowable too.
Putin told NATO/EU that war would happen if Ukraine joined NATO or the EU.
NATO/EU decided it was worth fighting a war to continue to expand its influence over Ukraine. After all it wouldn’t be NATO/EU citizens/soldiers dying so just Ukes and Ruskies.
Right or wrong. Doesn’t matter much now.
As late as 2008 there was an opportunity for creative bi-lateral security agreements to avoid war, but NATO/EU were uninterested in considering anything but war with Russia.
“Ukraine has been winning”
You can’t possibly be this delusional.
True, but we can't pretend to be innocent bystanders or righteous actors.
Except that NATO membership was permanently blocked by Russia’s occupation of Crimea and Donbas. If this is truly about NATO expansion, let Russia suggest a full withdrawal from Ukraine in return for Ukrainian neutrality.
Propaganda is easy to understand. Don’t believe anything you read. It is probably a lie.
The Ukrainians are still fighting.
| In the General/Chat forum, on a thread titled They Pushed The Russians Too Hard And Now They're All Doomed, Krosan wrote: |
For more than 500 days MacGregor has said the same thing every week. “Russia has destroyed Ukrainian military and it’ll take a week or two to mop things up”. It is very hard to understand what goes on in the minds of people who still keep posting him saying the same thing proven wrong over and over again. |
Well, because you aren't telling the truth, you see.
He hasn't said 'has destroyed' and 'it'll take a week or two to mop things up' for 500 days.
He has provided insight into the history, strategies, geopolitics in the region.
No one ever seems to mind posting Denys Davidov, who's been wrong often and outright lying the rest of the time.
It takes longer than all the analysts believe it will, and predict it WILL, because they've never seen a 'leader' grind their people/infrastructure/military down to dust by refusing advice to negotiate peace. Putin has long wanted negotiations and as Z refused, has been bombing military assets, US biolabs, and infrastructure. But Z never would negotiate so now about 40% of the population has fled - no infrastructure to provide water/electricity. And Z still thinks it's a good idea to keep going - to burn through ever last conscript until there just is no fuel for tanks and no men left to drive them.
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