Best War Movie bar none: the Cruel Sea, 1953

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[Chainmail]

<The Cruel Sea

[ansel12]

I don’t know what that means.

[ArtDodger]

Do you have a link for Land of the Pharaohs? thanks.

[Migraine]

I enjoy one called “The Devil’s Brigade”, w/ Bill Holden and a great cast (including a cameo w/ Paul Hornung and boxing champ Gene Fullmer).

It may have served as a bit of a model for “The Dirty Dozen”.

[Moltke]

The author of Das Boot, Lothar-Günther Buchheim, was a war correspondent like “Leutnant Werner” and spent time on U-Boot patrols.

But in the end he was critical of the film, thinking the cast were over-acting and that the anti-war message was not strong enough.

Still, one of the best films of that genre.

[Jimmy Valentine]

I bet you liked Joan Collins a bit better

[DouglasKC]

“Someone on YouTube a while back did a sort of language experiment. He spoke in English but used English where every word was Germanic in origin. It was completely understandable but had a slight archaic sound to it. If I had to match it with something it would be that of Hollywood movie dialogue where they were trying to sound medieval.”

I watched the same video I think...reminded me quite a bit of the Amish way of speaking English.

[Chainmail]

Snorkers - good oh!

[GOP_Party_Animal]

Now we’re both confused.

[ansel12]

Why don’t you just tell me what you were trying to say?

[Man from Oz]

Ping for later.

[Chainmail]

I remember watching Devil's Brigade and being a bit less enthusiastic. I tend to be pretty picky about war/military movies, likely because I was a Marine for 27 or so years..

But: have you seen William Holden in "the Bridges of Toko Ri"? That is an outstanding Korean War flick if you have the chance to see it.

[allendale]

Thank you.

[abb]

Great book. Better than the movie, imo.

[Migraine]

LOVE Bridges; Author = Michener, my Mom’s college Lit teacher.

[rlmorel]

I find that curious, but it did make me dwell on why the author felt that way.

I wonder if he found it not anti-war enough because it showed the combat veterans showing caring, tender feelings for guys they had come to love

I thought it was very anti-war, to my non-combat veteran eyes. Surely, it was anti-Nazi. And the senselessness of their mission at that point was clear to the characters, especially when they were sent to Italy.

Then, the “Homecoming”.

And they didn’t sugarcoat the meat grinder that the war for German submariners had become. Because their losses were pretty horrific when the tide turned on them. You had to look at the Captain of the U-96, in light of the ghosts and already hazy memories of all the other Captains who were gone, and wonder how he looked so...with it. At the shore party, he looked so different than his plastered counterpart. He seemed so functional and unscathed.

In control.

In my opinion, that was very much anti-war.

Perhaps the author didn’t wish to display how the crew showed such joy as their torpedoes hit home on an enemy ship. I don’t know. From what I have seen and heard, many men in combat take great joy in the destruction of their enemy.

I watched a video a few years back of some Marines in Afghanistan or Iraq, and they were pinned down by fire from a house that appeared to be made wholly of concrete, so they called in an air strike.

A single JDAM came out of the sky, and completely obliterated the house and everyone in it.

Those young Marines whooped and hollered and jumped around as if it were a football game and their team had scored the winning touchdown.

I can see where some people take issue with that.

I try not to judge them for it.

Knowing guys as I do (and being one) I can see it, though never having been in combat. When I saw those guys celebrating, I could understand it at some level.

And I think even more so if I consider that they had an axe to grind with a bunch of asshole enemy who wanted to turn them into grease spots when they would have rather been back home driving cars or chasing girls.

It reminds me of that quote that went something like “There is nothing more terrifying than an 18 year old American soldier with a gun.”

Part of me can believe that.

So, as I said before, I thought it was pretty anti-war, but in the framework of what an average movie viewer can see before they begin to be repelled by the grimness that IS war...perhaps that was the best that they could manage.

I guess that might be why it is one of the greatest war movies of all time, IMO.

They found a way to tread that line.

So, I have to read the author’s book myself now. Looking forward to it, to getting another perspective.

[Moltke]

Most excellent reasoning, and I completely agree.

I never considered the film even remotely pro-war (no post-war German movies are), but not pathetically anti-war either. It conveys to the viewer a somewhat realistic sense of how it must have felt to be on a U-Boat back then.

It’s a film - the primary purpose of a film is to provide ~2 hours of entertainment, by suspense or other means, which may require some exaggerated presentations.

No doubt Buchheim remembers his own experiences as being different, but the film was not made for an audience of one (Buchheim) but millions. He should have realized that fact.

[rlmorel]

Exactly...if you make it exactly like real war...people won’t want to see it. That is natural.

[rlmorel]

Thank you for starting this thread. The reason I say that is that it moved me to re-watch the movie.

I had seen "The Cruel Sea" for the first time just recently (within the last five years, I think) and when I saw it, I thought it was pretty good, but somewhere between #5 and #15 on my list.

After reading the thread, I had to revisit the movie, and I was surprised, it registered so differently. All I can imagine is that when I last saw it, I was distracted by something or other, because after watching it in a whole new light tonight, it ranks in my top three, and those are often close enough to where each can be in the #1 slot at any time.

It is a masterful movie.

An extremely well written story.

The character development is superb.

It is a surprisingly multi-faceted movie. Relations between people were explored in interesting ways. The movie had many scenes in it, each good enough to be thought as a signature vignette that perfectly framed what was being conveyed.

I particularly enjoyed the romantic one when one guy goes on leave to his buddy's sister's house, and the unseen sparks fly.

And the terrible choice the Captain had to make was another example of a vignette which made you feel a presentiment of the the lonely weight of command.

The framing of various scenes was remarkable. It reminded me of why I love the movie "The Searchers", in which John Ford had so many scenes impeccably framed, almost as if it were a painting. Here is one example:

Here is a scene from "The Searchers" whose composition I admire:

Compared to this scene from "The Cruel Sea" which frames the moment that anyone who has ever served on a ship might be able to relate to. Granted, nowadays we would hear it over the 1MC, but if there was ever a human expression of a 1MC speaker two short feet above your top level rack, it would be that British sailor shouting down into that compartment from the hatchway which frames the moment:

So, that is why I say thank you. This is a crown jewel of a story which I came close to missing.

[Robwin]

Hawkins was a great actor and turned in a bravura performance in The Bridge on the River Kwai.

[rlmorel]

Yes, he did. I thought this was his best performance of all the ones I have seen.

When I was a kid, maybe 11 or 12, I read a comprehensive book about the allied POW experience in the Japanese sector. It was pretty brutal. I had lived in Japan for a couple of years when I was younger, and the Japanese soldiers described were quite different from the Japanese I had come to know.

I had seen “Bridge on The River Kwai” a few times before, on a Saturday afternoon or whatnot on television, but when I saw the movie after I read that book, it hit me a different way.