Posted on 03/27/2023 3:47:44 PM PDT by dynachrome
This, from the Gersh Kuntzman school of Urinalism.
I have a 100 year old Lee-Enfield that will do a damn sight more damage than any AR.
CC
It was. Notice they don't even sign their names to this drivel? Who the heck is "Washington Post Staff"? These bipedal debris have names.
I'll bet you the cops' AR patrol rifles are marked for 5.56.
All this over something significantly less than a mere “patrol rifle”? (According to a story just a few days ago, about a select-fire M4, that might have also been an SBR.)
I can’t speak for everyone, but ours were very deliberately the *civilian* .223. Deliberate political move.
“...Departments started putting patrol rifles in cars for exactly the opposite reason that these reporters are claiming...departmental risk management groups came to realize that a 12 gauge is just “too much gun” for a lot of law enforcement problems.
The solution? The relatively more accurate, and much less powerful AR, usually chambered in the civilian .223 cartridge. Much less risk of over-penetration compared to a 12 gauge slug or even buckshot, and zero “spread” compared to shot...” [absalom01, post 31]
Exactly opposite of actual terminal ballistics.
5.56x45mm - 223 Remington in civilian loadings - far outranges any shotgun, any loading. Slugs have the edge in momentum but total energy is comparable. Rifle bullets always penetrate deeper than shot charges - in any medium.
There is the question of “stopping power” - a topic that preoccupies many enthusiasts but defies quantification and predictability. The Defense Dept does not use the attribute in cartridge selection, and law enforcement agencies follow their lead.
All of which leaves the question unanswered: why would a police dept turn in shotguns for MSRs?
Best guesses: controllability, magazine capacity, ease of reloading.
Most shotguns suitable for law enforcement use have tubular magazines. Slightly fussy to load, one loose round at a time. Even with extended magazine tubes, max capacity rarely exceeds nine rounds.
Shotguns develop serious recoil with full-power loads. Even the best users can find this off-putting; hampers response in a real-life emergency situation. This may be changing as ammunition manufacturers offer more varieties of reduced loads and shorter shells (the latter increases magazine capacity - if the shorties can be induced to feed right).
By way of contrast, autoloading rifles chambered for an “intermediate” cartridge feeding from detachable box magazines develop gentler recoil, hold many more rounds, and reload more easily & speedily. Various platforms fit the bill but AR-15-style rifles satisfy requirements neatly; and there are added advantages - three generations of military development, potential federal grants, parts commonality with military organizations, and possible resupply.
Few law enforcement agencies are administered by arms experts. The bureaucrats and politicians who command them know even less; other priorities likely loom larger. The reasons “why” may never be revealed.
“I’ll bet you the cops’ AR patrol rifles are marked for 5.56.” [NorthMountain, post 44]
Let us hope you’re right.
MIL STD chambers are (a little) more generous in certain dimensions. And pressures for M855 rounds can exceed safe levels for civilian loadings. For safety reasons, it is recommended that M855 not be fired in rifles marked “223 Rem”.
Ruger has always maintained that its Mini-14 is safe with any 223 or 5.56mm factory loading.
But unless I'm mistaken the AR-15 isn't capable of automatic fire.If that's correct then it's no different than a thousand other semi automatic rifles.
Except,of course,that it looks pretty scary!
Thank you for the reply, will follow up in the morning with further.
Molon Labe!
In Liberty,
A01
< sigh >
At first glance, that seems incredibly stupid.
But ...
Certain demographic groups, and the politicians who pander to them, really ARE that stupid.
I’ve written this before, but I think it is worthy of repeating.
This past summer I spent three months sitting on a Grand Jury in my county. We hear cases from 9 AM to 2PM, four days a week. A vast majority of the cases involved guns and fun violence. They were not all murders, but felonies where guns were used or possessed bye the bad guys.
In all of those cases, there was a single use of a long rifle; so about 1% of gun crimes in my country during that period.
AR15s are not the issue. 9mm and .40 cal firearms are much more of a problem. There were several 9MM Glocks with auto converters and 30 bullet magazines.
And what would the reaction be if these shooters were using a mossberg 12ga with double 0 buckshot?
We need to fix the problem, the root cause. But no one seems to be interested in that.
Oh I know the answer to this!
In our state (MA) they use the smith and Wesson MP15. It’s a .223 cartridge. They use them because at one time S&W was a state industry; most former military could pick it up and use it effectively with little training; and they are inexpensive.
I don’t know about other communities...but that is standard in most MA Police Departments.
Is the weapon marked "5.56mm" or ".223 Rem"?
Wait... did I read this right? They spent time and money investigating and found out... guns can kill.
Impressive!
Actually, I was wrong. My M&P was marked .223....I figured they all were. But I just looked it up on the SW site and the ones the cops use is the M&P Sport, which is listed at 5.56. (I just went down to check mine out and it says .223. But mine is more than 10 years old.)
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/m-p-15-sport-ii
I wonder when THAT changed.
Thanks for checking. The AR world is full of craziness; I shouldn’t have been quite so sure of how they’re marked.
Personally, I’ve only ever seen “5.56mm” and “.223 Wylde”.
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